LAiV Harmony Dac

#22

Ist doch unvergleichbar.
Edit: allerdings nichts gegen den T+A . Das steht doch für Titten und Arsch? Innere Werte sind schön, aber das Auge will auch was.
Der 200 dac ist vor allem geeignet für native DSD (upsampled by PC), PCM ist eher mittelmäßig. Beide werden getrennt verarbeitet. Also nicht optimal geeignet icm Rose Streamer. /Edit

I know we all like to support our own countries manufacturers and so on and so forth. But you are spamming expensive products that have nothing to do with this topic. On this site.

We were talking about an R2R dac. Which is something Rose Audio is not offering. And a lot of people prefer over Sigma Delta for obvious reasons. That is not competition but an alternative.

Edit: Translated: the T+A has two seperate DACs for PCM and DSD (like from a PC upsampled to DSD). The DSD dac is the main attraction, the pcm dac is just mediocre (good but a lot less competitive at this price level). So the T+A 200 is not really a good match for Rose streamers (unless you have a lot of native DSD music stored).

#23

Hi StandardModel,

one question : Did you plugged the ground cable connection between RS130 and LAIV Harmony ?
What is your expericence on that matter ?

Nice weekend, Christian

#24

Hello Christian,

No, I did not use the ground connection. I didn’t find it necessary. It’s my understanding that a ground is necessary only to stop ground loop noise and I don’t have any that I can hear in my setup.

StandardModel

#25

Hello @StandardModel
How’s your LAiV DAC performing ? Are you using I2S connection ?
I am interested to get one. What’s the cons so far you see ?
Thanks

#26

TomT,

Well, first the bad. Like (according to them) very few others, my input board died. I emailed them on a Sunday and I received a response in hours. A Fed-Ex package was sent to me which I got three days later, The “kit” included a pair of white gloves, a wrist-ground strap new screws and a new warranty sticker to replace the one that had to be removed as well as the small replacement board. A link was given to a YouTube video with step by step instructions. Thirty minutes later, I was back in business.
Some reviewers have said that while it’s very beautifully built, the Holo May Spring is better.
“Lots of hype, but the sober take from GoldenSound on that HeadFi thread sounds like it’s a solid DAC for the money, but not on par with a Holo May or better.” I can’t comment about that because I haven’t heard the Holo May.

I like the sound. It’s a bit on the warmer side like all R2R DACs. It has a wide and deep sound stage.I use the I2s input from my Rose RS130. The LAiV has a really nice feature in that it has a large selection of I2Ss input pin connections which are selected on a menu. All I2s DACs should do that. My last DAC wasn’t compatible with the 130’s meagre selection (2). I’m not a sound expert by any means so all I can really say is that I’m happy with it. Are there better DACs out there for less money? IDK.

StandardModel

#27

Thanks @StandardModel for the quick reply.

I had a friend who bought the Harmony and told me that the DAC is pretty good. So I follow his advice. I already placed my order and it is now on the way shipping to me. It will arrive tomorrow or the day after the latest.

Sorry to hear that your DAC got problem in such a short time. It worries me. But the company responded quickly to address your issue. That at least comforts me a little as there’s no distributor in my region too.

Actually I was waiting for the RD160 but its release date is not yet known, due to some compatibility issues some rumours said. That’s ok to me because delay is better than pushing out an immature product with lots of issues.

My current DAC is the Eversolo DAC-Z8, which is priced around a third of the LAiV.
Frankly, the Z8 is a well-built device and sounds nicely to my ear. However, since I never used R2R DAC before and there’s no news about the RD160, so I am still pretty excited to find out how the Harmony is going to sound in my system.

Are there better DACs out there for less money ? I don’t know either.

Have a good weekend
Tom

#28

In my opinion there are no better DACs at a lower price but there are certainly ones with a different musical character both at the same price and even higher, that is, ones that have an unequal presentation of the sound message. At these high levels of quality, it remains only a personal choice and the real protagonist is the context in which it is inserted. The LaiV certainly deserves a high-profile source like the RS130 and in my opinion it performs best with the I2s connection. I am extremely satisfied with it and I have heard several much more expensive R2R DACs, but the harmony is better for me. The maximum quality emerges after at least 100 hours of operation from new, unlike es Denafrips that already arrive broken in from the factory. Replacing the power cable and using a dedicated HDMI cable for the I2s connection is strongly recommended by me. Have fun everyone.

#29

I use the i²s input over an (affordable) DDC now from the RS250. It’s hard to maintain it’s ‘so much better than usb’. I use a good power cable, power filter, good usb etc. Only the hdmi is a standard 4k cable. Just insert the cable and go.

I find the Harmony very natural sounding. What strikes me most is the almost tangible presence of voices, the full bodied sound of a cello, the brush of a cimbals. Very detailed without accentuating highs, or fairy dust twinkle. Instruments sound like they should sound.

I really don’t think you can get better quality sound at this price. Different yes. Better, no.

#30

Thanks all for the information.

I received my Harmony DAC earlier today about noon time. The order was placed two days ago. The shipping is fast.

Setting up of the DAC is straight-forward.

LAIV

Out of the box with the Harmony DAC replacing my Eversolo Z8 in RS130-RSA720-DAC connection, the sound is already much better in detail presentation. Treble-wise, the improvement isn’t much but noticeable. The amount of bass is similar but carrying more gravity and weight.

Singer voices, both male and female, are warmer and sweeter than the Z8. Sound stages and music separation are more defined, too.

Regarding I2S, unlike the suggestion from StandardModel provided above, it is the A MODE (not B MODE) on the RS130 is compatible with the Harmony DAC, where the default LAiV mode, as well Mode 1, 4 and 5 can be used without any problem.

LAIV I2S Mode

Not sure if the changes from B MODE to A MODE in my case is due to different firmware version or not.

Sadly, in my system, I found the sound from the I2S setup isn’t as good as the USB connection which is more open and relax in my system. I am not sure whether it is the 8K HDMI cable or the RSA720 USB Hub or something else. Will test out more later.

Anyway, above is my first impression of the Harmony DAC right out from the box in cold condition. Improvements from the DAC, frankly speaking, are not day and night but can still be heard clearly. I believe it will get better after running for some hours.

What about the “long-awaited” RD160 ? I don’t know. It’s currently removed from my awaited equipment list.

RSA720 USB2.0 Connectivity Issue to DAC
#31

Differences between DACs are never ‘night and day’ because we tend to listen to them like we compare speakers. Listen for frequency amplitude changes. But since all DACs measure ruler flat that won’t change. But changes in timing matter for how we perceive space, small details, size and boundaries of instruments and voices. The more natural it sounds the easier it is for the brain to listen.

Here is a new review that matches well with my experience

#32

TomT,

Very nice review.
I’m still very satisfied with the LAiV Harmony.
I’ll try the USB myself to see if I can discern a difference.
What I was referring to in my post was that the RS 130 only has two possible HDMI I2s pin out selections, not that the LAiV I2s configurator choice number 2 should be utilized. I should have been more clear.

StandardModel

#33

Thank you StandardModel.
Worth a try with the USB. But do note that there’s a 720 fibre hub used between the DAC and the 130. Straightly connecting the DAC and the 130 with USB is not as good. :smile:

#34

Tom,

Thanks for your reply.
I use fibre optic connections now.
Electrical noise isolation afforded by optical connections is the ideal.

StandardModel

1 Like
#35

Hi TomT did you get the USB connection via the RSA720 to work ?
If yes, how does it sound ?

#36

Hi @Richter58
Yes, I have no problem connecting the Harmony DAC via RSA720 USB Hub. It sounds nicer in all aspects than simply connecting the DAC to the RS130 directly.
This is true even when I was using the Eversolo DAC-Z8.
In my case, the RS130–RSA720–DAC is better than RS130–DAC I have to say.

#37

Hi @Christian and @StandardModel
I do connect the ground between RS130 and the Harmony DAC.
I am not sure if the subtle sonic improvement is my expectation or not. Anyway I have the ground connected as there’s no degradation too.
Worth a try if you have a cable on hand.
P.S.
I further auditioned this morning with and without the ground connection. I am sure it’s more pleasant WITH the ground. I don’t know how to express it — the sound is more “stable”.
Recommend you to give it a try. All you need is just a cable.

#38

Jumping into an older thread (brand new here)… The Laiv Harmony DAC now has available a micro-DDC that can be placed between a streamer and the DAC, and I am wondering if it might act for one, the same way the RSA720 is acting in the system described by TomT. I just purchased a Harmony DAC and am considering adding the uDDC between it and my streamer (which I intend to upgrade). I am asking because I have been strongly considering buying the Rose130. Thanks to all here for any insights about that.

#39

Hi @TimM
Contacted LAiV before regarding adding the uDDC between the Harmony DAC and RS130. The company said the improvement would be subtle and therefore not recommended although it could be used. I didn’t ask further but I guess it’s probably the uDDC wasn’t developed for its own Harmony DAC.
Tom

#40

Interesting. I look at it from the other side. I think they are acknowledging that the RS130 output doesn’t need any cleanup. I think their DDC is likely to help lesser streamers’ performance. But it might also be of more value paired with the new Laiv uDAC. I don’t know if it was designed more for that.

#41

I use the LAIV Harmony DAC with the RS130 and I use the I2S interconnects because it cleaned up the sound in my system. I’ve read how R2R DACs trade the softer “tube sound” for a “leaner” sound. The I2S connection improved the sound so it was cleaner but it didn’t sound lean. The LAiV is miraculous in terms of the soundstage size it creates… wide and tall. The RS130 provides a much deeper soundstage starting about 3 feet away from the sweet spot (sometimes wrapping around the sweetspot on some songs) clipping the width of the LAiV only a little. The RS130 also produces a more realistic sound and better localization. As always, every system is different and results vary.