Hi,
I’m RS520 user, love the device usability and overall audio quality for the money, but I wonder when Apple Music HiRes will be available. Apple did some upgrades on their side and now Android users can choose better than AAC audio quality so I wonder when it will come to Rose.
PS. I’d like to see less Korean in Apple Music, at least English should be the default language of choice.
Only Apple hardware or software developed by Apple products and apps support lossless music.
Since the app (software) on the Android phone was also developed by Apple, it supports lossless sound sources.
So, until now, Apple hardware or software supports only up to aac256 bps unless it is a product or app developed by Apple.
For hi-fi audio equipment, I think Apple Music will gradually expand technology disclosure.
If Apple releases this part in the future, we will be able to apply it.
If you see Korean when using Apple Music in the RoseConnect app, delete and reinstall the RoseConnect app.
Hi,
I am considering Hifi Rose, and Apple Music lossless is also important to me. I notice that Eversolo DMP-6A has Apple Music lossless. To my understanding both Hifi Rose and Eversolo use a version of Android, and I do not understand why Hifi Rose do not support lossless.
What have I missed, can you please help me understand?
As I understand, the Eversolo uses native Apple Music android app, and HiFi rose uses its own application and Apple API to receive and stream music. It is a big difference. In general, native Apple App is not easy to control from remote device (like the phone) and Eversolo has to do some thicks like app screen mirroring over wifi network to be able to control the app and its not flawless. Native HiFi Rose App , while can be controlled via the remote or phone, has no access to Lossless content via API method it uses. In theory, it could be possible to run native Android Apple music app on HiFi Rose, but we’ll have very limited way of controlling it, probably it would be accessible via front touch screen only.
That, and I think Eversolo has a more standard screen aspect ratio. Even if you could sideload native Apple Music app onto Rose, it’s not a given that it would be usable on Rose’s screen, let alone interface with the native Rose UI…
Dear Hi-Fi Rose Users
Only Apple hardware or software developed by Apple products and apps support lossless music.
Since the app (software) on the Android phone was also developed by Apple, it supports lossless sound sources.
So, until now, Apple hardware or software supports only up to aac256 bps unless it is a product or app developed by Apple.
For hi-fi audio equipment, I think Apple Music will gradually expand technology disclosure.
If Apple releases this part in the future, we will be able to apply it.
Additionally, we will explain the differences in how to play Apple Music lossless music on other products.
Hi-Fi Rose does not use the Android Audio Framework to provide HIFI Audio services but is designed to deliver pure audio data to the DAC without loss by using the self-developed Rose Audio Server.
Since we use the Android OS, there are many people who misunderstand that the Audio System also uses the Android Audio System, so I would like to explain the current audio playback structure of Hi-Fi Rose in more detail.
Basically, we use Android to provide a smooth touch screen-based user interface. Additionally, all processes related to HDMI output and graphics on the LCD are performed through the Android Framework. Android’s graphics system is very well tuned compared to other OSs, so the CPU calculations and power consumption required to provide a similar interface are relatively small. This has the advantage of minimizing interference in audio-related processing despite providing a rich graphical interface.
In addition, video playback, system settings, etc. are also used by taking advantage of Android.
The audio system does not use the Android Framework. To provide HIFI Audio service, all steps from I/O to sending audio data to DAC were implemented using the Rose Audio Server we developed ourselves.
Figure 1 is the traditional Android audio structure. A mixer is implemented on the Android Framework to support various audio channels (calls, notification sounds, multimedia, alarm etc.), and all audio is played through this mixer. Because of this, transcoding inevitably occurs in the audio data, and even when playing lossless sound sources, they are played at a specific Bit/Sampling Rate.
However, Hi-Fi Rose products do not use the Android Framework for audio playback, as shown in Figure 2.
When playing audio, only the path is passed to the Rose Audio Server, and the Rose Audio Server directly reads the audio source (file/stream, etc.), converts it into pure audio data (PCM/DSD), and uses the ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture) API. to pass audio data to the DAC on the Linux Kernel. Rose Audio Server is a framework for HiFi Audio developed directly by Hi-Fi Rose to deliver audio data as it is to the DAC without modification, support MQA Decoding, or perform DSP functions such as EQ (RS201), MQA Decoding, Resampling, etc.
I’m sorry but I really don’t understand your previous sentence:
So, until now, Apple hardware or software supports only up to aac256 bps unless it is a product or app developed by Apple.
Do your product support hi-res bitstream lossless from AppleMusic or not?!
Apple Music lossless is not available at the moment for Rose HiFi.
As the owner of RS520, which is great, I keep my fingers crossed for the future and I hope to see Apple Music hires as it is on Eversolo and FiiO with some clever tricks.
Thank you for the detailed and informative answer!
This statement confused me. Eversolo claims to deliver bit-perfect streams in the original rate. It seems like you are saying:
The music will be up sampled or down sampled to a specific Bit/Sampling Rate. So for example a 192 will get brought down to 48 and a 44 will get brought up to 48.
The Apple Hi Res Lossless music that is delivered through the typical Android architecture will go through a lot of steps and therefore will probably have some corruption / jitter even if it is not actually re-sampled.
Could you clarify your meaning?
Thanks!
If I am remembering correctly the Apple Music android app is compatible with lossless audio.
If the rose interface is based on android, would it be possible to use this as basis ?
You’re right, but Rose choose to implement their app differently, which is unfortunate.
Sadly for all of us, Rose relies on old software which they don’t fully control, which leads to lots of bugs and limited functionality. And yes, it os better now than it was before, but it’s still very far from being the ultimate gear as it is advertised.
Lossless is possible only if you are using Apple’s on software (complain to Apple about that, but this is how they run their business. You need to be “in the ecosystem.”).
While Rose does use Android to handle the UI and file/network operations, it lacks some system services present on normal phones or tablets and it uses a very non-standard screen aspect ratio making it impossible to just run an app from the store. Even if you did manage to sideload Apple Music (or Spotify, or something else) onto a Rose, it either would not work at all or would be unusable because the UI would be completely mangled. And it would not interface well with RoseOS’s overlays.
They just released a new version of the mobile app Rose Connect.
Maybe once fully deployed they will have time to address those concerns about software ownership and maybe even support other apps.
In the meantime I use AirPlay which is LossLess.
Look, go write your own OS from scratch.
(I’ve done it for a 6809 embedded controller. )
Not fun or easy.
You could take a Linux kernel and pare it down for handling audio… which is what you’ll find w people running on Raspberry Pi s. That’s easier but still a lot of work and there would have to be a bit of rework on the UX.
Rose could also just upgrade to a later release of Android, while that would be the least painful option… but its not going to be pain free. (This will allow for additional options found in later releases that are not back ported to 7.x)
As Rose pointed out early in this thread… its Apple who controls lossless on their kit. Or the apps they write. So there’s that.
Now when it comes to airplay… Airplay 1 is ‘lossless’ but Airplay 2 is not. (You can google and get the AI run down if you want.) And where you see Airplay… most likely its going to be airplay 2.
If you want lossless apple music… run from your laptop or mini/studio/iMac. Use a USB-A to USB-B cable and use the USB-B port on the Rose (I have the RS520) . The USB-C to USB-B uses the USB-B 3.x which is a different connector so you need the USB-A cable. (Unless you want to make your own custom cable.)
Also you can up sample using the Midi app and go to 32bit/768kHz.
Which still would not give you Apple Lossless, Tidal Connect, Spotify Lossless, or anything else people have been clamoring for.
Unless one’s computer (like MacBooks for quite some time now) only has a USB-C port. Just use whatever cable (as long as it is USB certified, not some “audiophile” job) that will plug into USB-B on the Rose and whichever port is on the computer.
But… why? One could at least argue that using something like HQPlayer could mangle the data enough to sound different. Straight upsampling from the OS won’t hurt anything but won’t provide any benefit either.
