There are many DACs in the world - and beside, that Rose 250 as a DAC is already very good, there are still some that are better. The DAC in the RS150 as an example.
But there are much higher rated DACs from Companies like DCS, PS Audio, Denafrips, Chord etc - and I like the possibility to upgrade to a better DAC, without buying a new streamer.
Of course, you need to have a very good Setup, to clearly hear the difference.
It’s up to the listeners budget, with what you want to hear, and how much you want to invest.
I bought the RS150 and I’m satisfied with the DAC, even I know, that I may later upgrade as well.
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Sure there is always room for improvement or better sounding source. No one denies it. Author’s questions were answered without any judgment whatsoever. However if you want to connect another/better DAC why purchase player with DAC build in already? There are zillions of another players to choose. If you buy Rose with DAC you pay for this function. Not really cost effective choice. Yet again - it’s your money and you can do whatever your heart desires.
Hello Michael
Its not about cost effective at a price point of 2K. Cost effective is something that cost £500 or less.
DACs are a personal choice and perspective.
There are 2 main different types of DACS Sigma Delta and R2R ladder DACs.
Most DAC design are Sigma Delta DAC Type which is what is in the RS250 and RS150.
I personally prefer the sound from an R2R Ladder DAC which is what I have and have also connected it to my RS250 streamer bypassing its internal DAC.
Also there are various different DAC implementation of Sigma Delta.
Chord Hugo 2 to me, sounds better then the DAC in the RS250 which both are Sigma Delta Types.
I brought the RS250 knowing that I would bypass the internal DAC, because I like the other things it has to offer, Big Screen, Internal Storage, HDMI out, Solid construction, Linear PSU and the option to bypass DAC using USB.
Again its always personal perspective on sound and image.
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An Upgrade which brings me to a next level soundwise are never cost effective - at least not for me.
The main reason for me is to do it step by step.
The RS150 was not cheap and will for sure be used for a longer period of time. And with the ability to use a different sounding DAC later on, I can use it until I have the money left for the next step.
It was a important feature for me - not more - not less.
So to expand further, what can’t the Rose do if connected to an external DAC? Do some of the display features (meters, video, Roon, etc) not function if you bypass the internal DAC?
I use an R2R DAC, but love some of the functionality of this streamer. I would be connecting the Rose to my DAC via USB.
Thanks!
My understanding is that an external DAC can do the same as the internal, as long as its within the same specs. some features are software wise limited with the internal DAC.
Use the Rose as a DAC via USB = No track Information, No VU Meters
When streaming via Network to the Rose from Roon = Track Information but for some reasons no VU Meter. Must be the same if an external DAC is used.
VU Meter is limited to playback from a local Storage only - no clue why this is. Not sure if this would work out when you use and external USB DAC (or I2S which would be better).
For streaming, I prefer the track info from VU Meters - these are gadgets which look cool on demo, but after a while I got bored about them. From somepoint in the chain, the VU Meter must get the Volume Infos. maybe @ROSELOA you can give a better answer.
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Hi Support,
May I check if the RS250 will fixed the volume at max level when I connect to an external DAC via coxial?
As I would like to control the volume from my pre-amp which is the ideal case.
Hello,
May I check if the RS250 will fixed the volume at max level when I connect to an external DAC via coxial?
→ Yes, it will be max volume.
If you turn on ‘Software Volume Control’ which is for controlling volume from ROSE in digital output, volume will be changed depends on your volume knob.
Hi Support,
I don’t really understand this Soft volume control on RS250, is it better to use soft volume control in this case but we can control volume from a dedicated pre-amp…
Hello,
You don’t have to use software volume control.
Software volume control is for users who wants to control volume from ROSE, even when they’re using digital outputs.
This is because you can control everything with just one RoseConnectApp, including volume.
It is not required to use the function.
Hi, I recently added a RS250a to my system that runs pre amp, DAC, Amp. The DAC is a Theta Gen Va. When I connect the 250, the Theta does not recognize the 250 as the source. I am using the coaxial out on the 250. Any suggestions?
Thanks
What do you mean by; “does not recognize”?
Any dac should handle the coax output of the RS250.
Did you set output to coax under the ‘in/output settings’?
And did you limit the output clockrate to 48kHz?
The input chip is a rather old CS8412 that cannot handle high-res. If you don’t downsample it will go on tilt. It will give weird noises or mute altogether.
In my opinion you’d rather just use the analog out of the Rose since that is probably better and supports a lot more features (like high res files, DSD, parametric equaliser.
The 8412 is an anachronism. The pcm63 are old R2R iirc. That dac design is 30 years old. There has been incredible progress in DACs even in the last decade, let alone 3 decades.
I have a modern discrete R2R dac but the internal dac of the RS250 is not much worse. That Theta might be built for eternity, but IMHO only as a boat anchor.
Thanks for the reply… the Theta will flash on a blue LED when the source is connected. It worked with the Rose for a few weeks and then stopped, and actually started up again for like 5 minutes and then disconnected from the source again. CD player connects and functions with no issue but w the streamer its touchy at best. So I’m not sure if it’s a under power or over power issue thought there might be some matching issues when it comes to older equipment.
I will say, the quality of sound with the Theta is vastly superior to what the native DAC on the Rose produces. The Theta has Burr Brown PCM63k chips. But yes, the weight would be admired by most boat anchors-- lol.
For sure there are some great new DACs and ultimately I’ll go in one of those directions but have had this Theta and Bryston Amp/PreAmp set up for about 30 years and hate to bin it as the system still does a good job— nostalgia-- lol.
Ahhhh!!! Figured out the issue…the Theta will play albums from the Rose (via Tidal) up to 16 bits, 44.1khz but when I play a track at 24 bits,96khz the Theta is unable to process.
lol— now more reason to upgrade.
Just as a note-- at the 16bit, this Theta is quite good when compared to the 250s internal DAC. The internal DAC has ZERO soundstage and while I have heard new internal DACs that are better than the Theta (everSolo A8 in example), it is well worth being operational when my other choice is only the internal— Which R2R dac are you running?
I told you what the issue is. The input chip cs8412 can handle only cd quality. No high resolution.
A dac is much more than just a dac-chip. And while the old BB multibit chips are highly regarded they are outdated in the world of high-res streaming. And while the power supply is probably very good, the in and output filters and connections are getting museum worthy. As is the knowledge of the time with which they were made.
I have done lots of modifications on my cd-player and a bunch of DACs. I still have a bunch of old cd-players but they are pretty much useless. Unless as a boat anchor… One of them is a Philips with a famous DAC chip in it, the tda1541. And I have (sold) a lot of Tda1543 DAC with modifications on the output that actually can handle 24-96. I recently brought one for buying and auditioning speakers. Incomparable with the old Philips cd-player. That is like watching a old CRT colour TV compared to a modern 4k flatscreen.
I have done a lot of forum discussions on R2R DACs and a lot of comparisons with people coming over or meetings at others homes. And I do remember how ‘good’ high end cd-players sound. And they nearly would have killed my audio hobby if I didn’t have a great vinyl setup. Which has always sounded better and more engaging. I’ve upgraded my turntable as well and it’s still my reference but digital has upgraded so much over the last years with discrete R2R DACs that it comes ever closer.
I am now using the Rose RS250 internal dac because I am trying out new monoblocks on Magnepans. My regular system has signals going via USB to the Denafrips Ares II dac, to a Gato amp 150 to my own design 1,5 way bipole (2 Ti 3" fullrange + AMT supertweeter) design plus Genesis VI for subwoofers. Yes, I love those Genesis giants from the 90-ies but they have an overcomplicated crossover.
I am now saving to replace the Denafrips Ares II. It’s very good but it was all I could afford a few years ago. It sounds very open and deep. Wide but not like some. Details are all present but not accentuated, a bit like chocolate sirup. If I play DSD on it, it sounds amazing. Only it lacks i²s input and I can’t or won’t modify it.
I was saving for a Venus 12th but now there is a new brand with a new R2R dac called Laiv Harmony. That ticks a lot of boxes and if I read and saw the reviews, is even better.
If the RS250 sounds flat in your setup there is something wrong. The Eversolo D8 has a very similar internal dac. And I do hear soundstage and depth. It might be some setting or cables or whatever. It is a very good dac on itself. However, I prefer the natural sound of an R2R dac, and the signal from the RS250 is good enough for much higher priced DACs.
Jeep,
I have the LAiV Dac. You won’t be disappointed if you go for it.
There’s a lot of visual bling in its design which I equate to fancy paintings in a restaurant.
I go for the food not the decor.
The sound quality is superb.
I have a Gustard r26 r2r Dac for sale now.
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Design is an art. A little bit of restrained extravaganza is all in good taste. Like my Italian Gold Note phono has a beautiful cnc-milled case with a gold badge with their logo (Etruscan Horn) on it. The Laiv is close match (but for the spikes).
Denafrips seems unable to decide on one universal look. As a designer that irritates me to no end. The frugal amount of usability is a solid choice. No remote, no screen. But I miss them.
Holo sort of sticks to one look with the orange cheeks but they are so BIG. And expensive, with a high snake oil content. Now I don’t really think it’s snake oil but silver does jack up the price.
So, yes, Laiv Harmony is a lot of money but you get a lot more than what you pay for with others.
Jeep,
Yes, you do get more than than you pay for with others. I totally agree. This is a startup so a valid caveat would be can they scale up and make money to keep going. I bet that they will despite the fact that a majority of startups fail. I’ve had the LAiV Harmony for about a week now and so far it’s rock solid. Build quality is ridiculously good. With the normal distributor markup this is a $10k Dac.
It’s a little surprising that there’s no internet connection for upgrades and you can’t switch inputs with the remote.
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Jeep,
I was wrong on both items in the second paragraph. You CAN upgrade through a USB port just not over the internet. Secondly you Can switch inputs remotely! I have no quibbles. Support response was overnight on both issues. They are very quick to respond to questions.
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Lol. I was surprised it wouldn’t switch inputs, that’s the first most important function.
I think we better discuss in the seperate Laiv topic and not here.
I also discuss this a with a lot of ppl on head-fi.org. lots of knowledge there. Weng Fai is present too.
LAiV Harmony R2R DAC Impression and Reviews | Page 9 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org
Given the price of both the Rose and the Laiv this is a very sensible choice. Only for i²s input you will need to get some kind of DDC like Nobsound (Douk) U2pro of Denafrips Iris etc. as a possible upgrade.