Hello
I am hoping to connect my 150b to a Gustard R26 DAC with i2s.
Can this be done. Please see the attached HDMI pin layout.
Hello,
Yes, you can connect to your DAC if you have cable.
You need the cable between RS150B I2S and Gustard HDMI. Important thing for the cable is the pin arrangement, there’s picture of I2S pin arrangement at the rear of RS150B.
So you will have to purchase or make a cable that fits to arrangement for both RS150B and Gustard.
Do you recommend a cable. I can’t figure out the pin layout. There is no cable I know that matches the DVI of the 150b and the HDMI of the Gustard. Can you offer a recommendation.
Okay, so I have done more digging and way too much time to figure out the scheme for converting DVI to HDMI. Not nearly as straight forward as one would think. See attached spreadsheet to see the alignment of DVI pins to HDMI pins under two schemes (HDMI A and HDMI B). It appears that Gustard is using type B with a few notable exceptions, HDMI Pin 25 and Pin 26 don’t appear to be labeled in the Gustard schematic of the HDMI port and LRCK+/- appear to be reversed for the ROSE output but everything aligns from the ROSE (Output B) to the Gustard HDMI. Any thoughts?
I wanted to use this post as an example of why it can be frustrating to use a Hifi Rose product. I have been waiting 4 months for an answer on this concern. If you could once again revisit this request to allow me to have a resolution, I would appreciate it.
I have done all the research and provided detailed mapping including the DSD pin flag (15).
With Hifi Rose using Dvi to Hdmi plus only offering two i2s profiles (ps audio and JAVS) it is difficult to conclude with certainty , for the user, compatibility. With other streamers it is very straightforward to determine compatibility thus my need for you, the manufacturer, to provide the answer.
All the mapping is included so a engineer should be able to quickly look at the mapping and determine if there will be issues.
Thank you.
Hello duffer5, I’m sorry for late reply.
This is the pin arrangement of RS150B I2S-DVI OUT.
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Will check Gustard manual, one sec please.
I provided you all the info already.so there should be no need to search for more info. I provided the dvi to hdmi mapping and the specific Gustard mapping. Hope this helps.
Yes, I checked your chart and wanted to see if there’s more detailed information about pin 15.
Regardless of LRCK+/-, I2S connection will work in A mode of RS150B.
And I won’t have an issue with speaker phase or DSD? That is somewhat contradictory given the mapping I provided.
USA Distributor, Mofi, who I went to first also told me there would be no issues. Mofi said that Hifi Rose advised them as you mentioned above profile A would work without issue. I sought additional clarity from Mofi due to speaker phase and DSD compatibility concerns with trying to understand the port mapping with zero response from Mofi. That is why I came back to you the manufacturer to seek final clarity in December which resulted in no response until now.
So please understand my confusion and appreciation. I just need to know what the real answer is and please note the DSD flag which is concerning.
That is why i put the work into mapping the pins for hdmi to dvi and post the Gustard mapping and I have been waiting for a response ever since. So are you confident I won’t have issues now? And profile a will work without issue?
Hello,
I do not have the same DAC as you do and since the I2S-DVI output of the RS150B was developed to be compatible with PS Audio, I cannot gurantee that everything will work perfectly when connected to your DAC. It would have been helpful if the manual for the R26 had more detailed information about the I2S input, but unfortunately it does not.
As it happens, a friend of mine has the same DAC as you do. I’m going to test the RS150B with it now.
I will give you exact answer when I’m back.
That will be very helpful. I look forward to your reply.
Hello,
I have tested the RS150B’s I2S-DVI OUT with Gustard R26’s I2S HDMI port.
(Tested in mode A. Mode B made no sound at all)
- When playing PCM music, there seems to be no problems at first listen. There is no noise and no buffering. Music also plays normally.
- However, the output is inverted. The sound from the left is heard from the right speaker and the sound from the right is heard from the left speaker.
- When playing DSD music in NATIVE DSD mode from the RS150B, I2S recognizes it as PCM.
DSD 512 > PCM 352.8K
DSD 256 > PCM 176.4K
DSD 128 > PCM 88.2K
DSD 64 > PCM 44.1K
I apologize for the delay, but I am glad to be able to provide more accurate information and thank you for the opportunity to correct my mistake in short time.
(I wanted to cross-check if the tracks that I played were something strange, so I connected RS150B and R26 with USB cable. With USB connection, everything was normal. I would recommend USB connection if you hope to use R26 with RS150B)
Thank you. Very helpful. As mentioned the USA distributor, Mofi, when I asked them this very question provided me info that concluded with certainty that the R26 was fully compatible with the Hifi Rose via i2s which unfortunately prompted me to purchase the R26 as I was seeking to connect via i2s only with a external DAC.
Knowing now that the R26 won’t work properly with i2s connection would have been very helpful as I would have purchased a different external DAC. But I do appreciate this finally being technically resolved.
The above reply is exactly what I was seeking back in December. Very detailed and finally, fully accurate and informed.
Hopefully in the future Hifi Rose won’t need to physically test the i2s compatibility with the actual external DAC if the i2s mapping is provided by the DAC’s manufacturer (as we did in this case) keeping in mind the DSD flag and speaker phase as that appears to be where the incompatibility will occur if ever.
Any plans with Hifi Rose adding more i2s profiles so the i2s connection could be more compatible with other external DAC’s via i2s? Could it be possible to allow the end user to adjust the i2s profile via software settings to control the pin mapping to virtually ensure compatibility with any external DAC that uses a i2s connection?
Thank you.
Hello,
I will inform Mofi about the compatibility issue with the R26 DAC and the Hifi Rose via I2S.
As of now, there are no plans to develop software that would make the RS150B more compatible with other I2S devices, but it’s a good idea. Once the stability of the streamer has been established, we will check whether it is possible to develop this feature.
Great. I look forward to hearing about any potential updates.
Duffer5,
Since I bought the Gustard R26 before finding your many posts about this issue, I’m in the same (leaky) boat.
Were you able to locate or have made a cable which connects the I2S DVI (?) connector from the HiFi Rose 150B to the Gustard I2s HDMI in port? I know you suggested buying a D2D converter but this seems like a kluge. Is it the only solution you found? Is there nobody who will just make up a cable?
TIA.
Ron Compton
No cable can be made. It is not the cable that is special. Any basic Hdmi will do or in this case DVI to HDMI. The problem is the profile setting for i2s for the rose unit itself is very limited (2 profiles) so there is no other solution than DDC or use USB out only. If you see my prior posts I was told by Hifi Rose and Mofi (USA distributor) that either profile a or b would be fine to use with the Gustard R26 but the cable needed to match. 100% wrong. I did hours upon hours of research. Mapped the DVI pins to HDMI and HDMI to the a:b profiles of the 150b and I was right, there is no way i2s out of the 150 can connect to the r26. After I gave Rose pushback they actually tested a R26 with the Rose and their conclusion was it does not work and to use USB out only.
I was so mad as I would have purchased a different DAC but decided on the DDC and lo and behold it did the trick. Now it is not as good as direct i2s but the USB signal gets super cleaned up when inputed into the DDC and then you get the audio and clock info outputted via i2s which gets imputed into the R26 without alternation.
The i2s implementation from Rose is not good. The DSD flags and limited profiles are poorly designed. And now with the 130 going down the same path and with that unit requiring a external DAC some people will run into issues especially those who use Gustard products and even those who don’t but listen primarily to DSD could have issues. Not all will have problems but Gustard 100% will not work.
Duffer5,
BUMMER. I would have for sure purchased a Denafrips had I known. Dumb me.
As I recall the D2d you used was about $450.00. Are there any others out there which would be a little less dear but just as good or should I just take my loss, sell the Gustard and buy a Denafrips?
There are so many good things about the HiFi Rose but the little niggles drive me crazy. You as well, I’m sure. I was going to get the RS130 but I decided optical wiring wasn’t worth the price that they are charging especially when you consider what they are taking out from the bill of materials. I purchased a 150B and the Gustard.
ROSELOA seems to say that the IIS connection does work “Regardless of LRCK+/-, I2S connection will work in A mode of RS150B.” It appears that what is being said is that the connection will work except for DSD and speaker phase? Is that incorrect? Also, Roseloa says that the USB works without problems just going directly from the Rose 150B USB to the Gustard USB. Is that not correct?
What to do.
Ron Compton
Hey Ron,
There is another thread where he and I are discussing this very issue and he tested the R26 live with HiFi Rose 150b and it did not work. Speaker phase was inverted and the DSD flag was wrong so DSD was being played as PCM and I am not sure the quality of the sound. I so wanted this to work but it just won’t.
As for as the DDC yes, I have the U18 and it is a great unit and you can use a standard HDMI from the U18 and the R26. I would keep the R26 for the single reason I think it is one of the best R2R DAC’s on the market. In between the Holo Spring KTE and the Holo May if I had to draw a comparison. Almost as good as the Denafrips Terminator 2. I have listened to them all.
The DDC is not a bad thing. It cleans the USB signal, gives you clock syncing and high quality i2s output. Find one used on Head-fi or USAudioMart and you will be set.
Just my 2cents.