If I was an investor in HiFi Rose

#1

If - hypothetically - Hi-Fi Rose was quoted on the stock market (or if it was open to any investment), the key questions I would ask - continuing to read the on-going litany of difficulties many keep reporting on user experience (which - by the way - have been going on for years now…) - are:

  1. How many people do HiFi Rose employ in Software Management and Development versus the headcount dedicated to Hardware?

  2. How accountable is the management of the Software area?

  3. Has the business considered firing the Head of Software (if such position actually exists?) and start afresh?

  4. Providing that the ownership/management of the whole business is aware about all these issues (it could well be that whoever owns HiFi Rose thinks all is going great…), what the business is actually gonna do about all this?

For most companies, shareholder or investor pressure triggers necessary change in the way businesses operate, although I fear it won’t be the case here.

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#2

Very hypothetical indeed. If you really were an investor these would be the wrong questions to ask. You are simply rephrasing the existing software related complaints. While there is probably a consensus that improvement is needed there is likely to be a sizeable, but less vocal, user group that is happy overall.
Every tech company, like Microsoft or Apple for example, has large numbers of highly visible, disgruntled customers. Yet overall they are successful and always improving.

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#3

I disagree, and I think you’re giving Rose far too easy a time… The questions Alessandro is posing are basically why is the software so poor and what are you doing about it?

Raising issues on this forum is clearly ineffective - long standing and serious bugs are raised - the support team here sy it will be addressed as soon as possible, and nothing happens. Raising them at the investor level might have more effect.

If it’s always improving why was the latest official release in January?

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#4

If I was a an investor I would be asking who our target audience is and are we focused on that audience. I have an RS130 and a 720 and they work flawlessly for me but I use it solely to stream music. There are so many additional functions on the streamer that adds complexity that it feels to me like they have just added everything it can do rather than the things it should do to make it attractive to the market. The functions are cool but how many people actually need then and which other manufacturers are we competing with? Having a clear market and product requirement helps to focus development on what is really needed to compete and not on bells and whistles that don’t add commercial value

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#5

Hey @eric.p you have probably misunderstood the spirit of my post.

As it goes, I am a happy Rose customer, to the point that - for my second home - I bought another RS150…! I am amazed by the sound quality it delivers and - although I am well aware of the limitations of its OS - sound quality is a deal breaker for me.

That doesn’t mean that I am a delighted customer… I am a fan of HiFi Rose and I would very much like the business to do much much and much better than what they manage to do now… as @the_bat has kindly added, my question is exactly why the software, its configuration and ultimately the experience it provides users, isn’t as good as the (expensive) hardware.

That’s why I’d love to know how many people are employed by the Hardware part as well as the Software part. But, of course, being an investor or not (= seeing a balance sheet, reading analysts reports, knowing how a company is structured and organised, etc.) we will never know that.

Let’s have a guess, shall we? I reckon that for a single employee in the Software side of the business, there are 5 employed by the Hardware side. Agree?

And more:

Is the user group, as you indicate, a really happy and ‘delighted’ bunch?

Is the Software as well as its Interface (the Rose Connect App) designed to be intuitive and user friendly?

Interestingly you mention a business like Apple, which of course is totally in a different league than HiFi Rose. Well, with every single Apple product - there is a sheer sense of delight that seamlessly moves between the Hardware and the Software. How the thing is designed and how you get to experience it. Using Apple products is just…delightful and that’s because lot of good thought has gone in the design/performance of their products (Hardware) as well as lots of genial work in how these products are actually used and experienced (Software). Also, unlike HiFi Rose, I don’t think Apple launches or puts products out in the market if these are not thoroughly tested before been put in the hands of the consumer. If that would happen in Cupertino (California), I guess investors would be very unhappy about it!

Like @the_bat has correctly outlined, issues on this Forum are a hit and miss affair. The two kind, helpful and polite guardians of this Forum know very well that - for example - for the last 2 1/2 years I have asked some clear fixes. As Alan said, nothing happens as a result of these exchanges, therefore, the spirit of this post was just to say that if this company was listed on the stock market or something similar, investors and shareholders alike would have the power to influence change.

And, it is also possible, as I have mentioned, that the ownership of the business doesn’t know about the constant/on-going bugs etc. and they all think everything is just great!

Yet again, after all this time, I don’t see any signs of structural changes in the way Hi-Fi Rose delivers its ‘magic juice’ to customers.

So, let’s root for an aggressive takeover and a full re-structure! :slight_smile:

#6

Everybody talks about software as being the problem with Rose. But I think the whole business is run rather badly. My RS130 for example malfunctioned on the day one in my possession. Could not get another, my unit had to go to the service. And I have been waiting for a month and a half now. It is a documented mode of failure also on this forum. I am sure waiting this long is a breach of EU law, but what can one do? Perhaps they are simply doing so well that they don’t have to bother themselves about customer satisfaction. But in the long run doing business in this way is bound to be doomed…

#7

At $5,000 Nothing can touch Hifi rose 130. The other lumin and aurrender are ridiculously overpriced and look like came from 1970s, with barely any sound improvement is debatable against rs130. I think Hifi rose is providing disruptive product and amazing value, we will all be using cheap Chinese copycat with no more innovations, or overpriced brick flip phone- like-looks like Lumin or Aurrender. So we need to strike right balance of pushing for fixes, but also supporting the company so they can succeed and we aren’t stuck with cheap copies never invest in R&d eversolo or WiiM (only copy and make cheaper) or overpriced ugly streamer like Lumin with no innovations at all and so boring to look at.

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#8

Hifi Rose , please fix RSA720! I don’t understand how Wiim can have software team so responsive and Rose allow problems persist? One time Wiim sent me new software update within 5 hours for compatibility issue with Galaxy Fold. Rose should hire Wiim software team immediately, or at least a competitive software team. Right now is below industry standard and not acceptable !!

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#9

Agree. I bought the RS130 almost 3 years ago hoping to ditch Roon and manage my music collection from the HiFi Rose. Impossible. Mismatched genres, covers, difficult to make playlists or to play by genre. Loading something new took ages for the database to update. I had to return it and get back to Roon. For 5000 dollars one expects, and should get, a flawless product. The HiFi Rose isn’t. Now I have two Eversolo DMP-8 and 6 and a Hifi Rose 230 as end points and manage everything from Roon. If after 3 years HiFi Rise can’t develop better software, it never will.

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#10

I believe maybe you should first confirm that this forum is an accurate reflection of most users’ experiences. I doubt it is.

#11

Did you seriously expect that something running a phone CPU and with very limited memory could be a replacement for Roon?

#12

Oh thanks for the short computer science 101. Of course not. That does not mean the software running on the Hifi Rose for which I paid 5000 dollars should have not been better. On the other hand, I frankly do not understand why you feel the need to defend a company that charges such an amount of money for a half-baked product and, on top of that, feel the need to use that condescending tone. Will you say that personally to me? Do you know my background? Or how did I come to that conclusion? What is my experience with electronics? or even with Android? No, you don’t, you do not know me, but you think you have a right to pass judgement. Get a life.

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#13

:clown_face:

You are the one who said that you wanted to replace Roon with RS130 (and I do have some thoughts about people buying 130 for more money that 150 costs, but they aren’t appropriate for Rose’s forum).

Yes, RoseOS could, and should be much better at managing libraries. I pointed that out like 3 years ago, even mentioned some Korean software that has been doing a decent job managing large libraries on phones many years ago. But if you are looking to replace a Roon server, maybe you should adjust your expectations, or get something designed primarily as a music server, like a Grimm, not a streamer with some file management capabilities…

#14

Before you can say that so many people are complaining you have to ask how many people aren’t complaining. The happy owners are naturally going to be quiet whereas the small minority with problems, go on forums. I’ve had an RS 250 now for two years and love it.

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#15

Try to reach out and address the same problems to premium brands like Chord, dCS, MBL, etc… and compare how and when they would react on your request.

#16

Where did you get the fact Rose would replace Roon server capabilities? Such db managing software has no place on lightweight devices that have just a signe purpose and should be optimized for it. Otherwise get regular PC and run all your software you would imagine.
You obviously miss the point of “streamer device” purpose as many others do…

#17

Those brands suck, they don’t even have a screen . They will become extinct like dinosaur, we don’t need concern them. We want our beloved Hifi Rose Korean innovator become the dominant world class company we all know they have the potential.

#18

Well, all these all-in-one gears are actually low power pc devices. You can always get to htpc from that perspective. So nothing new nor specific is put to the market rather custom made pc with specific purpose and no generic usage…actually that’s All it is…

#19

This is true. I absolutely love my RS130 and enjoy it every day for several hours.

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