Innovation vs stagnation: You be the judge

#1

Two companies. Two very different strategies.

One company has introduced a steady stream of new products, rapidly added features customers have been requesting, and actively engages with its user community by incorporating feedback into product development.

The other continues to make promises, explain why things take time, and ask customers to be patient while many of the same concerns remain unresolved.

Innovation isn’t just about releasing new hardware. It’s about continuously improving the ownership experience, listening to customers, and executing on commitments.

Whether HiFi Rose is merely going through a difficult transition or has already surrendered its leadership position is something each person can decide for themselves. I genuinely hope it’s the former, because competition ultimately benefits all of us.

Eversolo:

HiFi Rose:

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#2

głupek5

Neither Ever Solo nor Rose have ever been, nor will they ever be, leaders in streaming devices. No one who wants to professionally pursue music from streaming or files will buy these devices. I have a Rose RS 151, but if I were to listen exclusively to streaming, I definitely wouldn’t buy a device from this manufacturer. I’d buy a Lumin or Aurender. My main source is a SACD player, so I bought the Rose RS 151. So far, I’m happy with it, aside from some of the shortcomings I’ve mentioned here. I hope they fix them in a few months, because if not, the next streamer will be from Lumin or Aurender.

You also forgot to mention that ES is government-subsidized, while Rose isn’t, because they adhere to the laws that the Chinese are breaking, not only in audio, which is why their devices are cheaper than the competition. And it’s important to remember that.

#3

@Cougar2025

I appreciate your perspective, and I actually agree with one point you’ve made several times: if someone is shopping purely for the very best streaming experience regardless of price, Lumin and Aurender certainly deserve to be part of that conversation.

Where I think we differ is in how we evaluate the market.

Whether Eversolo benefits from lower manufacturing costs, government incentives, economies of scale, or something else isn’t something I can personally verify, so I’d rather not speculate. What I can observe, however, is the pace at which they have been introducing new products, adding features, responding to customer feedback, and expanding their product lineup. Those are visible facts.

Ultimately, customers judge companies based on the complete ownership experience—not just sound quality. Hardware, software, reliability, customer support, communication, firmware updates, and innovation all contribute to the value proposition.

As Rose owners, I don’t think we benefit by dismissing competitors. Quite the opposite. We should want HiFi Rose to study what others are doing well and continue raising the bar. Healthy competition is what drives every manufacturer to improve.

At the end of the day, I think we both want the same thing: for HiFi Rose to be successful and remain a compelling choice in an increasingly competitive market. My comments aren’t intended to elevate Eversolo over Rose—they’re intended to encourage Rose to continue evolving so it can compete with the very best.

#4

I agree Duffer, I want Rose to succeed. But they often take the more difficult path to success. I don’t see weekly software updates as a positive, I see them as a sign that there has not been enough testing before the product is released to the consumer. I think they should give everyone in the company a streamer and have them test it before it is released. I understand crowdsourcing the consumer (us) to get feedback, but c’mon, why so often do they fix one problem only to have another that heretofore was not a problem creep in?

IMO, they should go the route of McIntosh. McIntosh introduced a streamer/DAC (DS200) that has no proprietary software. It relies on Qobuz Connect, Apple AirPlay, Google Cast, Qobuz Connect, Spotify Connect, TIDAL Connect and is Roon Ready. Why does Rose write proprietary code and debug the code when others provide it? It works wired and wirelessly. No brainer to me for the next generation.

The Rose is a much better box than the Mac. If they could incorporate Dolby Atmos (multichannel output) and relied on third parties to write the code they could charge more and have a smaller staff.

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#5

głupek5
Rose, as a manufacturer, must understand that they want to succeed.

They’re not helped by ES introducing new products. I dare say Rose is living by its own way of thinking regarding streaming and apps, which are supposed to make using their devices easier.

The problem is that they don’t learn much, because the amount of advice they’re given regarding both the devices themselves and the apps seems like it should be at a higher level than it currently is.

The sound itself is good, and in my opinion, better than, for example, ES, but it won’t make people buy their devices if there’s no good app, if they keep improving with another update after every update (I’m referring to the system ones).

How can you have poorly performing meters for so long and pretend you don’t notice it, and then have to repeatedly point out that it’s a gadget that’s embarrassing to show when someone comes to listen to music, because the needle’s deflection has nothing to do with the sound dynamics? How can you create an app that requires a $1,000 device to run smoothly, let’s say, and yet, despite such an expensive controller, the app still has many bugs that need to be fixed? But Rose can’t do this, so they have to outsource it or hire people who can do it to ensure the app runs on cheaper devices without any bugs.

As for Chinese government funding, you can read about it everywhere, and as I mentioned, it’s not just in audio; it’s also in the automotive industry, medicine, and many other fields.

#6

I’m always surprised by the persistent myth in the West that every Chinese company is government-subsidized. People completely miss just how dominant and fiercely competitive China’s actual private sector is—it’s driven by intense market rivalry, not state cushions.

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#7

Western media coverage of China is deeply clouded by prejudice. Stop relying on biased headlines—visit China yourself and see the real economic dynamism firsthand.

Western media has a predictable reflex: whenever a Chinese company achieves global success, they instinctively attribute it to government-subsidized. If state funding were truly that easy to convert into market dominance, it only highlights the relative impotence of Western policy and a poor reflection on Western governments for being unable to compete.

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#8

I tested the innovation: I borrowed the Eversolo T10 for 3 days

Application that helps a lot in the implementation of the streamer

On the other hand, not very ergonomic, we must correct certain things at each visit: example the order of the Qobuz albums that are not memorized in the order that we have validated

If we switch to another application during use, it must be scanned to find the device, it is not immediate or transparent

For the T10 many reading bugs: incessant micro cut on SSD reading and disconnection on Qobuz including one that forced me to do a factory reset

I had more reading bugs with the T10 in 3 days than with the RS130 in 15 months and 12 months with my Ex RS150b

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#9

All I’m interested in is which one sounds better. Until Rose figures out how to provide a good front end I can use JPlay to drive my RS130.

#10

With the right version! It’s the RS130 without hesitation

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#11

Sound better?
That’s going to be subjective.

The issue here is that ES will release a product, like the DMP A6, to gain market entry. @Cougar2025 raises a good point about Chinese government subsidies. This helps to allow ES to enter markets at a lower price point. Then once a foot hold is established, they release an incrementally better product at a higher price point and margins.

W.R.T to the T8 vs T10, Jay Lee of Jay’s Iyagi YT channel did a comparison of the two units. $800 price difference. He said he couldn’t hear a difference. And the differences are in the sound correction along w the external clock. (Not that you need one.) And in terms of room correction… you can load up a separate profile from 3rd party products so that advantage becomes moot. His argument is that if you take the time to learn REW (Windows based tool) you can take measurements, generate a room correction file and load it into either unit. And you get a better result. (his opinion)

Now with respect to Rose…
We all agree hardware wise… hands down great value.
The pain point is software.
Rose is a smaller company (subsidiary of Citech) and has a smaller team working on things.
This means time and resources spent fixing issues w software… takes them away from other things like innovating. (Note: There are features in Rose like Rose Tube, clock/weather, etc… you don’t find in other products.) So IMHO its unfair to be critical on rate of releasing new products.

And this gets back to the fact that ES drops new products quarterly.
ES doesn’t care if their products overlap and eat their own sales. (This lends credence to @Cougar2025 ‘s comments’. ) Rose and other companies can’t afford to do that.

W.R.T to @Cougar2025 's opinion on Aurender or Lumin over Rose… sure. Aurender makes some really good components. Of course at a higher price point. (Lumin too )

@Gillesbonatti also makes some very important points. ES products have their warts too. The grass isn’t always greener.

#12

Subjective!! Maybe, it’s better to form your own opinion by doing either a test but not to mention the sound the reading errors are embarrassing, Eversolo has an experience with the A6, A8, T8 and T10

#13

Sure, everyone has to make their own decision as to what sounds best in their system. But this isn’t my first ride on the merry-go-round. I was one of the first adopters of the Slimdevices SLIMP3, and have been using many streaming devices since that time. I was also an early adopter of REW, and was using Inguz on Slimserver and REW to develop convolution files long before I think most people knew what they were.

My experience tells me that in a resolving system, with trained listeners, all these streaming devices sound different. Personal preference of course goes into deciding who likes one over the other. I don’t know if Jay Iyagi has been doing this for 23 years like I have (is he even 23 years old?), so for me his opinion is no better than any other talking head audio YouTuber.

When I chose the RS130 I tried a number of others in my system, including a Lumin U2. I felt the RS130 gave me the best of the sort of sound I was looking to get for a streaming solution, given my budget limit. My friend’s Aurender W20 does sound better in my system, but I can’t afford that. The N100 and N150 did not. I may try a T10 in my system if the opportunity should present itself.

#14

Jay has been in the audio industry for a long time.
To be clear, he was talking about the T8 vs the T10 and the $800 price point difference.
And that was the point of that comparison.

How any component will sound is going to depend on you and the rest of the gear in your chain.
As an example VA Hadyns sound much better w my Arcam while the Rose does a better job driving my Mon Acoustic mini s.

So you can go and get the T10. or T8 … your choice. Good luck.
But back @duffer5 's point…

There several reasons why different companies can release multiple products on a different release schedule.

And while he points to the RW800, keep in mind that Rose is also producing the RA80 and that they’ve revamped their GaN Amps internally in this design which could also lay the ground work for future models.

#15

I like and appreciate Rose’s hardware designs. In this respect I think they know what they’re doing.

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#16

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#17

It seems you’re attempting to channel your inner Boris.

The reason I talk about the YT videos is that its the easiest way to communicate some points where I am referencing someone else’s opinion which I happen to find insightful.

At the same time, there are some who have the test equipment and can demonstrate what they are talking about along w addressing some myths and misunderstandings that exist.

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#18

Hi! By reading this type of content I’m always courious how much time you speed to enjoy by listening music vs speculating and create the conspiracy theory.
Don’t get me wrong hou have right to do it. But some said „ The right to speak doesn’t mean that what you say is important.”
And last but not least we have the holly law of supply and demand on the free market. Your money - you decide …so if the ROSE is so bad why you guys complain constantly instead to buy f/e Gustard or EŚ stuff and be happy? Is this some kind of masochism?

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#19

Its Bonte channeling his inner Boris.
He’s already bought Lyngdorf for his main listening system.

But to the larger point… this is the only forum where owners can gripe about the product and give feedback to Rose.

Some of it is legit. Some of it is not.

Comparing Rose to other gear is natural.
Having a wish list of fixes? Natural.

To Duffer5’s point… you can see the competition always upgrading and releasing new products.
However… to Rose’s credit it seems that they are now constantly updating / fixing the Rose One app.

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