Notice Regarding Spotify Lossless Support

ROSE NOTICE
#64

What I post isn’t nonsense.
When I ask if you’ve ever led an IT Dept … or what it takes to make these kinds of decisions its from experience.

So yes, when I see some of the posts where people talk about how something isn’t that complex and its just a cost cutting measure… it shows they don’t know how or why the decision is being made.

Rose is on a version of Android and they said that they can’t get the tooling from (if memory serves… Spotify for that version of Android.) [I could be wrong since I’m going off memory]

Since you seem to think you know the issue… explain to me what their options are and why.
The truth is that there is no easy answer and the juice aint worth the squeeze.

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#65

And what does AWS being big in South Korea (yes, it is) has to do with Amazon Music? Oh, wait, it’s Mikey using big fancy words he does not understand again.

Check out the number of services supported by BlueSound. Or Wiim/LinkPlay. Or Lyngdorf. Or the number of smaller niche services that would love to get on someone’s hardware.

You keep saying that you know something about software development (you don’t). Takes all of 5 minutes to validate that Rose’s version of Android (which, incidentally is 7, and takes even less time to check, but hey, when did Mikey bother himself with facts!) is not, currently, a limiting factor for either Spotify or Tidal Connect.

Seems to be larger than the rest of Citech now.

You do realize that products have “Made in …” labels on them, no?

A very dangerous assumption in your case. On the other hand, assuming that you are not correct hits the spot every time.

Takibng EverSolo’s T8, which is as pointless as the 130, except that it at least works, supports far more streaming services, and accepts more storage, T8 costs quarter of 130’s price. But hey, when did facts stop Mikey from spouting nonsense?!

I am pretty sure I’ve read about the “IT department” you led multiple times. On TheDailyWTF.com .

Which is easily verifyable BS.

One could argue whether it make business sense to pay licensing for already sold products to get a ready made SDK with support for every “Connect” system under the sun, when you can sell a clunky external device to your users. That’s a different question, and given that Rose’s direction is to market to people paying $6K for a DACless streamer and listening to the sound of SFP modules, it might even make business sense. But technically it’s BS.

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#66

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#67

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#68

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#70

Here are the specific requirements for the SDK and Lossless:

  • Minimum Android for App: Android 7.0.
  • **Spotify App Version for Lossless:**v9.0.82.1008 or later.
  • Android SDK Requirements: The Spotify App Remote SDK requires the official Spotify app to be installed and is updated to be compatible with Android 14.

While Android 7.0 is the minimum for the app, you may face feature limitations on older Android versions, as Spotify Connect lossless is designed for modern 24-bit audio playback.

So, to use the latest features like Spotify Connect Lossless (which requires app version v9.0.82 or later) and to be compatible with modern Spotify Android SDK requirements (which address Android 14+ foreground service changes), you should ideally be on a much newer Android version.

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#71

The fact that someone can get so worked up about a single detail can only be explained, in my view, by the fact that they didn’t really inform themselves properly before buying a device. Spotify isn’t interesting to me: they pay artists poorly, and the quality of the standard stream isn’t particularly good. Lossless? Sure—if you don’t have Tidal or Qobuz… In that case, I’d simply switch services rather than lose my nerves over a €10 subscription.

Amazon is the same story, in my opinion. It only runs on certain devices, and not on any Raspberry-based setup or similar either. And again, we’re talking about a paid service for €10. Are you seriously going to grow grey hair over that? Hey, rose has a fine apple connection…

Tidal works perfectly in the Rose app. Sure, there’s always something to complain about—but turn on your Rose device, crack open a beer, and relax. Everything works just fine.

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#72

Hi Smegel, I’m new on this forum, and i’m not that experienced on streamers and lossless so apologies… I just bought a Rs151 and I was wondering : if you connect a iBasso Dap through digital(optical)-in of the Rs151, does it then show what you are actually playing on Spotify(on the iBasso in lossless quality) also on the big screen of the Rs151 ?

#73

The iBasso DAP isn’t using optical. They do SPDIF via the 3.5mm jack. So you have to buy an adapter from 3.5mm to SPIDF which was around $5.00 USD. Then use a COAX RCA cable between the DAP and the Rose.

So the Rose sees the DAP as your source, and not Spotify itself so there’s no art. (I never really looked, I just have the clock up on the screen ) If you want to see the artwork… you can look at your DAP, or… if you have another device, you can log into spotify to see what your account is playing… for example…
I have a Samsung TV and the Spotify App. When I listen to spotify connect, I can log in to spotify on the TV and see what my account is currently playing.

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#74

Thanks for the explanation !

#75

S/PDIF connections (either optical or coax) do not pass any metadata about what is playing, only the digital audio. So you will not get any covers, or even track names. Nor would you be able to control the iBasso (or any other S/PDIF source) using RS’s remote control or the Rose app.

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#76

I have recently bought a rs250a and I regret it already. Such a shame. For an expensive device the lack of updates and requirements to buy another device to enable Spotify lossless is outrageous and frustrating.
Wish I’d have read these comments before I bought it, I would have bought the less expensive eversolo T8

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#77

No.
Those worked up are those who bought before Spotify lossless became a thing.

And yes, I agree its a non issue.
The reality is that you can’t tell the difference between hi-def and lossless.
And then there’s the fact that this guy Golden Sound has published a vid about how Spotify Lossless isn’t really lossless.

#78

And here you have it.
Rather than acknowledge that you can listen to lossless via a SPDIF in… Boris has to point out that you don’t get to see the artwork.

Boris do you listen w your eyes?

The point was to listen to lossless.

You can do this as well if you plug in your pc/laptop using USB.

And if you buy Rose’s new device… do you see the music too? Most likely not.

#79

Sorry, Mike, we know that reading comprehension is a forgotten skill, but the question was, very specifically, “does it then show what you are actually playing on Spotify(on the iBasso in lossless quality) also on the big screen of the Rs151?” Sorry that you’ve missed it, as well as most other points made in most other discussions here.

We’ll have to wait and see. It is theoretically possible that there’d be some custom USB driver for it that would actually show metadata, and allow controlling playback through the main device, but we won’t know for sure until they actually announce it.

#80

You seem to be conflating or confusing several issues: lossy vs lossless; CD quality vs Hi-Def; and whether anyone can hear the difference between lossy, lossless and Hi-Def.

I cannot speak to what people can hear and cannot hear. Lossy files are compressed (formats like MP3 and AAC) and eliminate some audio information that were not deemed audible in order to make smaller files. Lossless formats which can be compressed (ALAC and FLAC) or uncompressed (WAV or AIFF) contain all the audible information that a CD has (16 bit/44kHz). Hi-Def audio is anything above CD quality, usually (24 bit/96kHz or 24 bit/192kHz), streams anyway.

Spotify lossless claims 16/44 and up to 24/48. I have not seen anywhere that it is not lossless and I would like to see that link to the Golden Sound review.

I don’t think I can hear the difference between a 320 kbps MP3 file a CD quality file or a Hi-Def file, but hope springs eternal. I don’t subscribe to Spotify, I subscribe to Apple Music and Qobuz. Apple Music because it has a growing catalog of Dolby Atmos music that I can play through my Apple TV and Qobuz because it offers Hi-Def files that I can play through Roon and my streamer.

I do understand the frustration of those entrenched Spotify subscribers who can’t listen to lossless through their Rose. It seems inconceivable for a device of this cost and “sophistication” to not be able to pull this off. But since I am not one of them, like Herr.moe, I would choose to switch to Qobuz or Tidal or suck it up and buy the add on Rose box when it is available.

#81

When tests were actually made, distinguishing Red Book (CD quality) and High Def was impossible, assuming that the master source is the same. Some people can distinguish 320 Kbps MP3 from a CD original, at least on specific tracks and if they know what to very carefully listen to. More strongly compressed MP3’s may be audible even to an “average person.”

The issue is instead that Spotify is the largest streaming service and if one is paying for the lossless tier, which might even be audible when listened to at home on some decent equipment, as opposed to in a car after another lossy Bluetooth transmission to the car stereo, one might very well be excused for expecting that a relatively modern piece of gear costing multiple thousands of dollars would actually be capable of delivering full quality they are paying for. And might even theoretically hear. With a cherry on the cake being that totally budget gear like Wiim or Bluesound does not have a problem with it.

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#82

Not confusing anything.
There are various levels in terms of compression which will impact audio quality.
If you use spotify you can take a look at their top level of audio quality vs their lossless.
You can play both settings and listen for yourself. (You do use spotify, right? )

Now you can take their most compressed and you can compare that to either the HD or the Lossless.
Here there is an audible difference. (Again, you can do this yourself.) YMMV depending on quality of device. I did this on an old iPad Pro Max (1st gen) and a decent closed back headphone.
Oh and I wasn’t testing for it. It was accidental. I switched to the device and noticed that it sounded off, then checked the audio settings.

And you can google for it. You can go to YT see his channel and then search.

This conversation is like showing that there are measurable differences yet they are not audible.

#83

I did search for Golden Sound’s YouTube on Spotify Lossless and could not find it. I have read that Spotify Lossless is lossless.

I just didn’t understand what you meant in your reply to Herr.moe that it is a “non-issue.” Obviously it is an issue to Spotify users who want to or think they should be able to listen to Spotify Lossless on their Rose device. So now I am left wondering, what is the non-issue?

Spotify Lossless never claimed to be Hi-Def, I don’t know how Hi-Def crept into your response. Spotify Lossless addresses lossy vs lossless, not lossless vs Hi-Def.

Anyway regarding Herr.moe’s “caveat emptor” regarding owners who didn’t do their research, I would like to point out that Rose’s marketing materials are misleading, or at least do not reveal everything they could:

  1. Rose claims to offer Apple Music. Rose does not say that it is not “gapless.” Non-gapless streaming is about as useful as a fork in a sugar bowl.

  2. Rose claims that its HDMI output bypasses HD audio format sources, such as surround sound, to the audio receiver through HDMI without decoding. It does not. That was kind of a big deal, for me anyway.

Sure if basic research involves joining a forum to see what users complain about before purchasing, then many, including myself are guilty of not doing sufficient research before purchasing. That said, for a device such as the Rose to not at least be upgradeable or patched to play a lossless stream is an “issue” and should be an issue to purchasers of a $5000 streamer in 2025-26. Sure, they don’t explicitly state that the machine can’t play Spotify Lossless, but perhaps they should, at least in a footnote, given the popularity of Spotify.

Which brings us back to why. Why is it not upgradeable? Because the company does not want to pay the license fee to Spotify for all of the devices that are already in the field. That is my opinion and it certainly differs from yours. We are both entitled to our opinion.

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#84
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