Using an RW800 through optical digital output to an external DAC. Listening to Apple Music via Chrome Cast off an Android phone.
It’s not possible to see what stream quality I am actually listening to. Apple Music says HiRes Lossless on the app. The Rose app says nothing at all about the data stream. Exactly what quality of music stream am I hearing?
Thanks.
It’s not easy to get a definitive answer to this question. It seems that it’s not simple to actually have Hi Res Lossless or Lossless delivered to your equipment if it’s not Apple. It seems probable that I’m listening to AAC quality music stream. But as I already said, it’s difficult to know. Unfortunately for me, the family is firmly in the Apple ecosystem apart from me. We have a family share account or I’d definitely change to a better quality music stream service.
From what I can see the only way to listen to Apple Music in Hi Res or Lossless mode would be to connect an iPhone to my DAC using a USB to Toslink converter.
That means my recently purchased Rose RW800 would be used as a paperweight.
I would not write off the RW800 just yet. You do need a device that tells you the bit depth and sample rate emanating from your optical cable. The optical out is not the limiter here, it can easily pass 24/96 which is pretty much what Apple Music uses for its Hi Res streams and Rose said the optical out supports 24/192.
Chrome Cast is limited to 48 kHz, I think. Why not try a wired connection to the RW800?
Thanks for the comment. It’s difficult to find reliable information about this. Apple Music isn’t forthcoming supporting 3rd party hardware. Anything non Apple appears to me to be served an AAC stream.
Using Chromecast, the data stream doesn’t run through the Android device. It simply tells the Apple Music servers to send the selected music to the RW800. Chromecast is not in the data stream.
If I connect my Android device to the RW800 by USB I understand that Android resamples the music stream anyway before outputting it by USB so I still wouldn’t hear Apple Music Lossless. I could use a USB to Toslink converter and connect the Android device directly to the DAC. Again, the RW800 would be a paperweight. Though as I said, I’m 99% certain that Apple Music servers serve an AAC stream to anything that isn’t Apple hardware. The Apple Music app is telling lies when it says HiRes Lossless.
I think the only reliable way for me to hear lossless music stream is to use a service that’s supported on the RW800 like Spotify.
It’s only a problem to me because of the family being in the Apple ecosystem.
The other factor of course is that I may not hear any difference anyway between what I have and a lossless stream.
In any case it’s early days for the RW800. Who knows what improvements lie ahead?
This is not true. On my RS130 with the Apple Music (downloaded from Rose Store) sent 24/96 when I selected Hi Res versions. That is why I am saying not to give up on the mini Rose, it might be capable of giving you what you want, you just need a DAC or other device that can identify the bitstream that is coming out of it.
I am an Apple guy too so I understand.
As to what we are capable of hearing, well that is a question for all of us. Personally 16/44 is probably good enough for me but that doesn’t stop me from owning equipment more capable than my ears. At lossless and above, I think the quality of the recording is more important than bit depth and sampling rate.
I wouldn’t expect too much in the way of improvements for the RW800. It is mainly a bridge device for people who have Rose Streamers that don’t have the capabilities of the 800. That should be fixed in the newer models. The RW800 is not a high margin product for Rose and I don’t see them continuing it beyond this generation.
Thanks again for the comments. Neatly encapsulates a big part of the issue. I cannot easily find out from Apple exactly what does and doesn’t actually receive an ALAC music stream when the Apple Music app shows it. From what I can see, even some Apple devices are served AAC.
The huge potential combination of devices and software I suppose doesn’t make the situation easy and I think there’s tons of misinformation out there. I may even have contributed to that myself unwittingly. AI enabled search engines dig this up and present it as facts even when very incorrect.
Yes, part of my dilemma is that neither the Rose app, nor the DAC are actually telling me what it is I’m hearing. Having said all that, I’m not unhappy with what I’m hearing. It was a £169 upgrade. I spend more than that on a week of groceries.
The future of the WR800? I don’t know. Rose didn’t need to release a device able to work as a front end to other audio equipment brands. But they did. I think given the right marketing and press it could sell by the boat load. Like the Wiim products do.
OK. I finally found what I have been looking for here at HiFi Rose confirming only Apple hardware and software can play Apple Lossless music stream.
Quote from HiFi Rose -
“Only Apple hardware or software developed by Apple products and apps support lossless music.”
Link - Apple Lossless HiRes
The thread is almost three years old but I believe it still applies.
Yes, that is an outdated thread. If you have a 151 or a 130 and you install the Apple Music app from the Rose Store, Apple Music now streams lossless and Hi Res content either 16/44 or 24/96. The but, and it is a big but, Apple Music is not gapless playback on these two $6000 devices due to some Rose software issue that I cannot explain. That is unacceptable to me. To listen to Apple Music at its best you need a Mac or an AppleTV. With those, you get lossless, Hi Res, multi-channel (through HDMI) and gapless playback. That is what I did.
As far as ALAC, I can’t say whether your music files are converted to AAC before being shipped out of your phone. I am assuming the files on your phone are ALAC because you brought it up. What I can tell you (since all of my CDs have been ripped in the ALAC codec), is that if you have sent your ALAC files to the Apple Cloud, they will not come back to you lossless, they are sent as AAC. If you store ALAC files on a drive, external or internal, the Rose 130 and 151 will decode them as ALAC and they will be lossless.