Something Rose needs to work on

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#41

Yes, they could.
That’s the thing.
Its not just the connector but also the length of the cable.

For example… your CAT 8 can do 40Gb/s but for a specific distance.

I just had to pull a CAT 8 line for ~30’ when I pulled my AT&T fiber into a different room for my end point.
The condo builders put the junction for all of their CAT 5 wiring into a small nook in the closet, also pulled power and that’s where the fiber modem sat. Until it burned out and had to be replaced… which is when I got the guy to pull the fiber line into a different room where I have my server rack. That’s a 10GbE switch which feeds to my other switch (1GbE) that feeds the different rooms.

And yes, in my server cluster… I need to upgrade to 100GbE which would cost about 9-10K for the switch and then the networking cards.

While this would be overkill for most home offices… not for me. I have to test different cluster configs and scenarios to prove out designs.

Rose put in SPF in their new kit. Something other vendors are doing on the higher end. When you’re selling DDCs and Fiber from the switch down to your stereo… you want to be able to say you have isolated your components. IMHO more marketing… although there are enough people who claim they can hear the difference… so who knows?

#42

Sure you can. You can also buy a “sound-improving audiophile fuse”, a book of horoscopes, or, as you did, even a diploma showing that you had allegedly managed to finish a school. Unfortunately you are too dense to realize that none of them are real.

Even if you take a real Cat 7 cable, chop off connectors, and replace them with RJ45’s what you end up with is, at best, a perfectly fine Cat 6a cable. If you bought it from an “audiophile” company, more like Cat 5e if you’re lucky. Neither of them “sounds” any different, of course.

Did you get kicked out off of one of those, too?

High-end (not that you would know one) vendors do not bother with nonsense like that. You won’t find SFPs on any really fancy kit. It’s something mid-range manufacturers like Rose or Eversolo do to sell to ignorant audiophiles.

#43

Für alle 130 Benutzer :face_with_monocle:

#44

That’s right…even my favorite devices, like the Grimm Audio MU2 or Nagra Audio, don’t use anything like that.

Unfortunately, these devices will only exist in my wildest dreams, as I can never afford them.

:v:t2:

#45

you’d be surprised at who’s bringing it out.

#46

Which real high-end manufacturers???

Name a few, and I’ll take a look at these devices and maybe discover some new personal favorites.

#47

DCS Varese is a pretty high end unit that will have SFP on board.

#48

The interesting thing is the push to have as pure a signal from the source as far as you can go into your stack and to your speakers.

Since you’re already seeing external clocks, power supplies, some modularity (e.g. sub cards for phono, HDMI or extra XLR ports. )

Not to mention custom power cables, power conditioners and regenerators.

So going optical is a predictable evolution.

So yes w networking capable of providing optical links

#49

Pretty sure that you are not correct about the Varese.

#50

@Eleven it was shared with me that this would be an optional card to be offered as a “add on,” so take that for what it is but as of today I would say you are correct I don’t see any photos of the SFP being available on board right now.

#51

Even $100K gear from companies like Burmester or Wadax (made of pure snake oil!) does not have SFPs because they are cheap.

dCS specs for Varese: Ethernet on RJ45 connector for network streaming. No SFP in sight.

Neither do companies like dCS employ any “femto clocks” because they are quite useless.

#52

Yes they can.
You have two issues that impact the throughput. The wiring and the connectors/terminators. So your CAT 7 cable w a RJ45 connection still has CAT 7 cabling.

Consider that the CAT 8 has RJ45 connections … albeit better quality that what you find in CAT 5 wires.

Again the CAT 7 was a bit of a ‘half step’ and this gets into the whole standards and ratification process.
And again a moot point. But yes, you could get 10Gb/s on patch cable lengths.

If you look at CAT 8, you’re guaranteed to get 40Gb/s out to a specified distance. At patch panel lengths you’ll get it if you have a router capable of delivering it. Note that beyond the port speed, there’s the issue of internal fabric. But now we’re getting into router design and limitations.

IIRC Dell and HPE sell 40GbE port speed routers. However if you’re considering that… you’re better off going 100GbE port speed. You could go faster but then you hit a cost issue and value isn’t there. Right now the 100GbE port speed is the sweetspot in terms of price/value. And this is all internal to your home network.

Keep in mind this is mainly for your internal home network and not internet connectivity. Beyond 1GbE links… you really don’t need it except for some very specific use cases.

#53

Back 7 years ago when I was pre-wiring my home theater and cost of cabling was not at my front of mind, the installer ran 3 AQ Forest Cat7 cables from the equipment closet to the projector area, “just in case.” Years later when I finished the theater, I am grateful they did because the AQ HDMI cable they ran was faulty or it was damaged during construction.

These CAT7 cables required special terminations that I had to purchase from AQ. They were not ordinary terminations.

Subsequently I did some reading and learned that the cables and termination were no better than CAT6A, but no worse as far as I could tell. In the overall scheme of things the up-charge was rounding error in the cost of the theater, but if I were to do it again I would have asked about why they went with that cable rather than the 6A.

#54

The answer is it depends.

CAT 5 is 1/2 the price of CAT 6.
CAT 8 is 2X the price of CAT 6.

CAT 5 is 24awg. CAT 6 and CAT 8 are 23awg and CAT 8 has additional foil shielding.

On longer runs you’re not going to get 40Gb/s but you will still get better signal than CAT6.

Personally, if I was building new. I’d opt for the CAT 8 and doing fiber pulls to each room.
(I may consider multiple drops per room too… depending on the use case of the room)

For things like security cameras, I could see using CAT 5 but I’d still probably go CAT 6 shielded.
(You’re going to be doing longer runs…)

Price wise… you’re going to have to factor in the labor costs which will be higher than the cost of the bulk wire.

Now we’re getting way off topic here.

#55

I am pretty sure CAT8 did not exist when the cables were pulled. CAT7 was not a thing (even though that is what AQ called them) and still isn’t. But it works, thankfully.

Boris, I think you would like the Scientific Audiophile. He has given me more than a few chuckles.

#56

So this something that many consumers don’t understand about releasing products and how standards committees actually work… For example, before the wi-fi 6 specification was even finalized or ratified you saw products being released.

Same thing of CAT 7.

So CAT 8 has been released and I think it will probably be the last since you’re hitting a physical limitation of what can be achieved.

Going to fiber optics is the next step.
So you’re going to see manufacturers add this to their products.

What some don’t understand is that the more mature your product line is… the greater resistance to change.

#57

The Cat7 standard specifies a different connector. If it has RJ45 it just is not a Cat7 cable, no matter what wiring is inside.

Of course it was, it’s AQ. AQ are crooks. Seriously, so is any installer that runs AQ wires.

Of course. One of the many reasons Cat7 never went anywhere as a standard is that it offers absolutely no advantage over 6a but costs more and isn’t compatible with 99.9% of equipment in actual use.

Do you know the margins on AQ cable?!

Maybe… But really, I want to listen to music, not audiophiles…

#58

Boris you’ve really need to learn more about how products get released and how standards committees work.

#59

Could you please stick to talking about something you have a clue about? Nobody knows what it is, but there should be something…

#60

The Scientific Audiophile is more of a comedian and audiophile myth debunker, that is why I think you would like him.