Trying out different OpAmps!

I think @afa2022 was being a little bit sarcastic. Yes, me too, lol.

Surge protection in place - always.

Honestly, I didn’t spend much(none) time analyzing the circuit board of the output stage. Logic: if they put MUSES in here it has to be more important that elsewhere - hence there Bursons goes.

From what I know, I/V stage in all commercial DACs is being design rather cheaply (opamps). I bet significant $$$ in RD160 went to manufacture top cover (20lb of alu?) haha. If you’re into serious modding there are options: discrete, Tube, Output Transformers…For me, maybe some day, if I have time. For now I’ll stay with my modified Oppo 105 because I’m a sucker for multi channel. RD160 and RS130 will be secondary and main for 4K video and of course for streaming convenience.

Music: Prog Rock, Jazz and Classical. Most of my recordings are SACD converted to DSD and I wish someone eventually come up with multichannel DAC - hence I don’t see myself separating from the old good OPPO.

Well I’m going to wait a year until I know I’m well out of the warranty period before I decide to open up my RS520.
Instead, I ended up getting DCA Aeon Cores, DITA Preludes, and now a replacement pair Eris.

Next, I’m probably going to look into a new dongle DAC, which I think will be the Schitt Vestri.

[Edit]
The interesting thing is that using a dongle dac and connecting to the RS520’s output USB tends to work well and give you the ability to have either single ended or 4.4mm balanced headphones.

Just got to make sure that you don’t have the output volume too high. That will blow out the headphones.

:man_facepalming:t2:

Hello everyone,

I’ve been following the discussions here on the Rose Forum about tuning, cable swaps, and amplifier replacements for that “evening sound” with great interest. However, I’d like to offer a slightly more pragmatic, technical perspective.

In my opinion, the golden rule still applies in high-end hi-fi: “Keep it simple.” The fewer devices, filters, and additional components in the signal chain, the less the signal can be distorted. When we stream in high resolution from Tidal or Qobuz, we want to deliver the original signal of the recording to the speakers as unaltered as possible. Every additional box and every permanent modification often only increases the risk of making things worse.

On the topic of “it sounds better in the evening”: Yes, this is measurable (a cleaner power grid because industry is asleep) and proven psychoacoustically (less ambient noise, the brain relaxes). But the solution to this isn’t to swap out the amplifier in the evening or make the chain even more complex!

And that brings us to the elephant in the room, which everyone in hi-fi forums likes to ignore: Our hearing ages. I’m over 55 myself. Biologically speaking, it’s a fact that at this age, our hearing no longer perceives the very high frequencies (above 10,000–12,000 Hz) at all. Many of the nuances being debated here in the context of extreme fine-tuning occur precisely in these frequency ranges or in the realm of minute measurements that a lab microphone might detect, but certainly not a human ear past the age of 50—we have to be that honest with ourselves.

Don’t get me wrong: a well-designed amplifier and good room acoustics make all the difference. But you can also overdo it with tuning and lose sight of what really matters: relaxed enjoyment of music.

What do you think? Is it better to keep the signal chain short and clean, or do you eventually get lost in tuning voodoo?

Best regards!

Rs150B Opamp rolling Muses 8921.

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AND?
How’s the sound?

Better details & transparencies in the highs.

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Where are the evidence???
:exclamation::exclamation::exclamation:Confirmation Bias:exclamation::exclamation::exclamation:
Together with the Cognitive Dissonance.

Can you prove that with an oscilloscope?

Yes, you can measure physical changes in the signal - but the disappointment for the “Voodoo followers” is usually great!!!

You are already the right heroes!

You probably don’t know that your ears won’t get any better with age either. First, focus on your body before making such statements.

Bonte,
You should hang out w Boris on ASR…

You shouldn’t always mention Boris. He’s still suing you. Or do you have a fetish for Boris?

I’m also at ASR and no wonder they kicked you out there! You’ve gotten a new home here, but even here enough people have already noticed what’s going on with you.

LOL Boris suing me? News to me.

Go hang out on ASR w Amir who ran his ‘test’ to show that two different caps that have the same value measured the same and therefore sounds the same. Too funny.

If you don’t like Rose gear move on.

I personally wouldn’t swap op-amps until I was out of warranty.
Rose used dip sockets instead of SMC. Lots of choices including Burr Brown, Burson and Sparkos,

When I was at AXPONA, spoke w one of the Sparkos engineers. He had some funny stories about ASR and Amir.

Everyone has funny stories because everyone lifts their stuff into the sky to pull the supposed customer’s money out of their pocket…and they’ll get you too.

Sorry for you bud. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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He and Boris are fans of Amir over at ASR.
I think his YouTube videos about his ‘tests’ are up.

He took two different op amps, one in each channel and then ran his standard of tests.
Since both gave very similar outputs he concluded that there’s no sonic difference.

Yet that’s like saying all capacitors w the same value will sound the same. (e.g. all 3.3uF caps sound the same.)

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They are entitled to their own opinion and judgement.
While we enjoy our system with our skills and what our ears heard.

Guys, we need to separate a few things here: physics, biology, and the human brain. No one is trying to take away anyone’s enjoyment of the hobby, but comparisons like the capacitor one are fundamentally flawed from a physics standpoint.

1. Why the capacitor comparison doesn’t hold up:
A capacitor (like a 3.3µF cap) works passively in the signal path and comes with component tolerances of often 5% to 10%. A cheap capacitor might actually measure at 3.0µF, while a precision one sits right at 3.3µF. This shifts the crossover frequency in a circuit in a way that is both measurable and audible! Plus, different designs (electrolytic, film, ceramic) have different internal resistances (ESR).

A modern operational amplifier (op-amp), however, is an active, highly complex integrated circuit made of hundreds of transistors. Its sole purpose is to amplify the signal one-to-one without altering it. When Amir at ASR measures two different modern op-amps and the distortion and noise floor of both are well below -110 dB, they are both absolutely transparent. Physics-wise, there is simply no signal left at the output that could possibly be different.

2. Biology beats us all (A reality check):
I’m over 55 myself. As a truck driver, I’ve had to undergo official, medical hearing tests every five years since turning 50 to keep my commercial driver’s license. That’s where you see the naked truth in black and white. My hearing rolls off right around 12 to a maximum of 13 kHz—which is actually an excellent biological value for our age group!

When people in forums claim that an op-amp swap suddenly opens up whole new worlds and ‘lifts veils’ in the upper treble—where the airy details and the proverbial ‘harp-playing elves in the moonlight’ live—it is biologically impossible for our age group. We simply cannot hear those frequencies anymore.

3. The human factor and the room:
On top of that, our hearing is extremely dependent on our daily condition. If I’ve been sitting in the truck cab all day or working with a weed whacker, my hearing biologically switches into a protective mode (Temporary Threshold Shift). Anyone comparing audio components after that is mostly measuring the fatigue of their own ears. Furthermore, our acoustic memory only lasts for a few seconds. The time it takes to power down, open the chassis, swap the chip, and boot everything back up is way too long for an objective comparison.

In the end, room acoustics (lack of calibration) and your own daily physical condition alter the sound by orders of magnitude more than a tiny silicon chip with measurably perfect specs ever could. If someone hears a difference, it is often just a tiny volume mismatch of 0.1 dB (which the brain instantly interprets as ‘better’) or simply the psychological desire for the mod to be a success.

Amir provides reproducible measurement data. Anyone claiming the opposite should subject themselves to a properly level-matched blind test. This isn’t about ‘opinions’—it’s about science.

Prost

3 Likes

Bonte,
So in your mind, you might as well buy some Chi-Fi amp that delivers good measurements and call it a day.

That’s like saying you have two rib eye steaks from two different cows. One steer was raised on grass, the other was finished off in a feed lot. You cook them the same. Yet for those who have a good palette, they will taste difference. Which you prefer is on you… but most would prefer the grass fed beef.

But hey, steak is steak right?

Note: I used steak as an example because its not going to cause some to go into a tizzy.

This comparison definitely misses the point.

5 set.

No, it doesn’t.

Look at the video and stuff Amir did and claimed… (if he still has it up on his channel. )

He’s an idjit.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Bonte, I couldn’t agree more with everything you have written about the major influences upon what we hear and perceive. But I will add on since we talking primarily about recorded music: the quality of the recording.

Along with room acoustics, room correction, speaker placement and listening position, I would place the quality of the recording.

Above all of that is our hearing. I found a number of your comments about human hearing and aging to be quite perceptive.

I also could give a list in descending order of what I think is most important in the listening chain to the experience, but I don’t want to start any arguments here.

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