Hello I’m not quite new but i would like to know that what is your best external dac to connect with your rose hifi? My system is b&w 803d3 ,gryphon diablo 300. I’m kinda satisfied with rose. But would like to know that there are any upgrade for my system ( looking for gustard r26 now. ) any suggestions?
In my system, I have a McIntosh preamp with a built-in DAC and I also have an external McIntosh DAC MDA1000. I have switched between using these external DACs and the Rose internal DAC. The Rose 150 internal DAC is extremely good.
I am posting because I have found the greatest difference across DACs is in the analog portion and specifically the output levels. These give rise to the greatest initial noticeable difference.
After playing with output levels to match the same levels, the differences start to become much more subtle.
You may hear differences in bass and minor differences in soundstage which require closer listening.
So, my advice is that if you like the sound of the internal DAC, keep using it as it is great. If you have an external DAC or want to try others, make sure that you match proper output levels or you might get fooled by immediate differences related to those output levels.
The ROSE 150B defaults to analog output of 6.5V and the 150 I think was 9.5V… those will likely differ from your other choices. Adjust those settings first before making your final selection.
I am currently using the built-in DAC of my preamp using the USB output of the RS150B. It sounds great and gives me a better balance when switching between my other digital sources. I do occasionally switch to the MDA 1000 which gives me the best sound, but being an older DAC, it’s limited to 96Khz sample rates. But the Rose is extremely capable as well and I think it has great soundstage but a slightly lower bass level. The differences and frankly not worth it for me to have bought an external - I happen to have these options in my system.
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Maybe this is not the right place to ask since there are so many fora with lots more experts and ‘experts’.
I can give you an answer however it’s better to do some investigating yourself.
You should know that the dac in the Rose is on a very high standard. Unfortunately the original chip in the 150a was unavailable for a long time because of a fire in the AKM factory. The b version has a replacement in the ubiquitous ESS9038. The common opinion is that the AKM is smoother where the ESS has a bit bright signature. This however depends on the implementation and the surrounding parts. My RS250 has the same chip with cheaper surrounding parts but it still is quite capable.
You mention the Gustard R26. This is a different kind of dac and uses the ladder dac or R2R method. One that I prefer. I did a lot of research and I even modded my own brand of r2r (I’m not a company but I sold almost 20 of them). I prefer their natural sound that doesn’t overemphasize detail but leaves nothing out. In most R2R DACs you can omit the entire output stage (which saves clarity and detail) because the output power is already there, you only need a simple i/v stage (1 resistor outside the signal path). Many ‘experts’ (who never looked at filters) say that R2R DACs sound ‘rolled off’. Only the old ones with analog brickwall filtering did that. That doesn’t apply anymore with high res material.
Sigma delta dacs are cheaper to make because you don’t need a whole range of very tight tolerance resistors that leave only a few excellent chips. Or a lot of resistors plus a lot of controlling. That is simply expensive to produce. The downsides are that sigma delta produce a lot of high frequency noise that has to be pushed far out of the audible range. It needs therefore a lot of over sampling that produces pre- and post ringing and the output voltage is very low do that you need an elaborate output stage with opamps or tubes or discrete transistors.
As you can imagine, the effort put in the stages before and after the actual dac-chip makes a LOT of difference.
Your choice, the Gustard R26 is very good. It’s an R2R. A lot of reviewers however put the A26 AKM based (yes they are back, same chip as the original rs250a) slightly ahead. So the A26 is sigma delta but a good one. This wil be an improvement but not earth shattering.
To stay with R2R, indulge me, there are 2 big players. The first is Holo Audio with the Spring III and the very expensive 2 box May. The tweaked Kitsune versions are even better.
Then there is Denafrips. They only focus on build and sound quality. They don’t do gimmicks. I currently have the entry level Ares II. Since they just celebrated their 12th anniversary they now all have improved ‘12 year’ editions.
The next one is the Pontus that is on par or betters the R26. The price is about equal. You need to look up reviews, or listen both, to decide which is better for you.
Then comes the Venus which is where you want to go for a real improvement. This is around the level of the Holo Spring (iirc).
Above that come the Terminator and the Terminator plus which are more expensive than the RS150.
For sigma delta there are so many high end choices up to a ton of money. Most don’t interest me. Only one exception: the T+A 200 which has a lot of the looks of Rose Audio. And the sound is exceptional. But so is the price. But if you want an upgrade…
Hope this helps. Take your time with this.
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That really depends on what you want to upgrade. Pretty much any modern well-made DAC that aims to reproduce signal faithfully (not all do of course, some go for intentional coloration that some people may prefer), whether it is ESS or AKM-based, or something hand-built like Holo (I, personally would not buy anything from Kitsune just because people selling $1000 USB cables should not be encouraged in any way, but this device is fine, just expensive) etc. will all sound good and accurate.
It is not given that one would actually tell any difference between them in blind testing, but if you believe that you do and one sound makes you happier than another, use that one. There’s no reason that one DAC technology would be superior to another, as long as it is well-made.
As a side-note, ESS or AKM sell millions of their chips, and they have R&D budgets greater than most boutique shops combined. That’s how Gustard, Topping, and even Rose can offer products at a comparatively low price – all the DAC R&D was carried out by the chip manufacturer. Chances are that ESS engineers know what they are doing. Now, they also do have to aim for something that most people will like (and most people prefer accurate sound, given the choice)… Unless you want some special kind of sound, it’d just stick with RS.
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If you don’t care to read, then please don’t try to push your opinions on anyone. I already debunked everything you blurted in my previous post.
And frankly you really don’t know what you are talking about. It’s really annoying. Especially that ‘intentional coloration’ bit. How many components did you work on?
That you can’t hear a difference is because you’re opinionated, untrained and probably not even interested to try. Other people who care can. That you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
I think you better move to ASR. People who just believe in their version of science and wish to convert everyone to their joyless lackluster religion.
Even the RS is made to a price point. The streamer part is pretty unique because of their special skillset.
And no, Topping doesn’t make good dacs.
Hi-Fi forums are the most mental part of the internet FACT.
Ah, another highly trained golden-eared guru who does not need no stinking blind tests because he can see veils lifting.
ASR with their worship of holy SINAD as the only worthwhile measure can be quite dogmatic and annoying but at least they do have actual measurements rather than “it costs more, must be better” snobbery.
And Topping doesn’t make DACs. Neither does Rose.
Fairy tales from people who can’t, in real world, distinguish a high bit-rate MP3 from original Red Book aren’t particularly convincing (and yes, I have heard some very expensive DACs, transports, etc.; ironically, one that I have never seen live is any Topping).
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Each person has a different hearing ability (and I’m not talking about if it still is 100% working). So what I or another person hears, is never the same what you hear.
And if someone has a trained hearing, then the only thing he or she can do is, to trust their own ears.
That’s all what counts or matters.
The other fact is the will to hear “something” because it is more expensive, or better rated in tests or measurements. let people make their experiences with new gear on their own. Faith moves mountains.
Oh, definitely, faith is the operating word here. On many an occasion highly trained audiophiles were able to detect “day and night” differences not only where the could not be any (cables, fuses, cable lifters etc.) but even when the “A” and “B” systems very identical! Not that it were limited to audiophiles of course. In a well-known experiment people were raving about a wine in a glass they were told was poured from a very expensive bottle, and had all kinds of nasty thing to say about the glass with “three buck Chuck.” Wine was, of course, the same.
Ironically, when it comes to telling a difference that does exist, like MP3 and a high-res file, there our golden ears tend to fail quite pathetically (but then you pretty much have to be under 30 to hear it reliably).
As for differences in individual hearing (not taste!) of course they exist, but within reasonable limits. No matter how many times the Chord guys claims to hear well below the brownian motion noise ,and not to need any stinking blind tests, it’s still utter bull. Unless, of course, he is not actually huiman. At least that would explain the design of Chord products.
This is the kind of Faith we are talking about here. Ridiculed by some, feared by others, simple matter of fact for rational people who know how to screw in a light bulb.
About 99.99999% of people don’t know how electricity works. Tesla had a pretty good idea and was ridiculed, fought and robbed, his research confiscated. He was willing to share his Inventions for the good of humanity. Today people still revere Edison as a great inventor and buy his rubbish while others who try to find out Teslas ideas, well… You get the idea.
I don’t get why those religious zeolots of audio SCIENCE review need to push their faith on others. Because scientism is a real religion. Dissenters need to be fought on every level.
If somebody asks a question, please have the courtesy of taking it seriously. And if you have nothing helpful to say, than don’t say anything.
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You do realize that this applies much more to your position, right?
We could argue till cows come home whether certain measurements tell you all you need to know about the sound (SINAD doesn’t), technical merits of D/S vs. R2R and all that. We shouldn’t even argue about personal preferences in the first place. Audible differences between devices though are pretty easy to ascertain if one is actually willing to go to the effort of a properly done blind test. Blind testing isn’t some plot hatched by ASR to push sales of Toppings. Makes one wonder why our golden-eared audiophiles go up in arms every time blind testing is mentioned. Maybe because when it *is done ears turn out to be less than golden?
Otherwise we might as well take seriously reports in the neighboring section about vast and easily detected sonic differences of purple fuses and $1300 wall sockets.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Although I wish you would give that evidence of absence here… 
It is clear to me that there is absence of any kind of scientific insight of magnetic fields around electrical conductors here. Not to mention temporal distortion caused by it. In capacitors for instance. Or cables passing armed concrete. It’s like trying to teach a toddler how to calculate the rotational volume of a function between 0 and x. But the toddlers behaviour is all that will manifest.
There is evidence of absence though, and it is pretty easy to find. Throwing some science-y looking words around does not prove anything.
If you can show, in blind testing, audible differences where there shouldn’t be any, please post them. Better yet, post them on ASR, it would be quite entertaining to see them eating crow. Otherwise it all looks like AudioQuest’s ad copy.
Strange, I didn’t take you for a wine drinker. More sort of like a ‘Bud light’ kinda guy.
FYI, I drink the non-piss kinds of beer, single malt whiskey that is actually from Scotland, or Ireland, and preferably Napoleon cognac. And I cook my own food. I don’t just heat it or buy it in a drive-in. Life is good when you know how to appreciate simple things. And not make others miserable by denying them what you can’t appreciate.
Double blind tests is for erm… blind people who want to prove that it’s impossible for other people to be able to see. Nobody is as blind as the one who does not want to see. Or hear.
Not everyone falls for that kind of a setup like your ‘double blind test’. That wasn’t a test but a set-up. The aim was clearly to deceive!
I once visited a lecture on leather coats by an incredibly gifted Turkish shop owner (who spoke 7 languages fluently including faultless dialects). After her very informative speech, she showed us 2 jackets. A soft shiny one and an ugly patchwork one. Which one would you choose? Everyone present chose the nice one. I chose the ugly one. She was stunned (that her trick didn’t work). “why did you choose the patchwork one? You are the first one ever who chose the ugly one!” I said: “I chose that one because at least it’s real leather, the other one is fake”. We parted as friends.
I like to expose fakes. And I know how to recognize them.
In the parting words of the famous youtuber ‘The drinker’ :" Go away now". Or go with the Bud Light VP and let me enjoy my lambic Mort Subite.
That’s because you have no clue actually. Quite typical audiophile snob who thinks that because he can afford some moderately pricey equipment his ears get gold-plated.
You can argue about ASR measurements all you want, they are certainly not the be-all solution to all audio questions, but blind tests are the one and only way of showing presence or absence of audible differences. They work. Just like they work for medicine and everything else. The “I don’t need no testing, I can hear tyhe difference” is just pathetic excuses of people trying to justify to themselves buying too much snake oil.
PS Rattling off some unofficial mass-market cognac designation does not make you into a connoisseur. lambic, is that your claim to fame? You have tried a lambic once? Talk about letting your ignorance shine through.
PPS Try some Japanese whisky, some will go against anything from Scotland (Fujisanroku is quite good).
PPPS For cognac try Kelt
PPPPS If the only kinds of tests you are aware of are deceitful ones, well, didn’t you say you worked in high-end audiophile industry or something? Of course you wouldn’t be aware of anything as plebeian as well-designed honest tests, scientific method, or anything like that.
For fucks sake. Enough Jeep, take a hard look at yourself.
Wow, this got rather heated. To answer the OP’s question, I’m using a dCS Lina for the DAC stage connected by USB. I also have the matching dCS wordclock and the combination is significantly superior to the DAC in the 150B.
Without too many superlatives it is much more musical and takes away the brightness without losing any detail, in fact there is more detail. It is night and day.
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There are some people who, if poured Bud Light in a Pauwel Kwak glass, would write 5 pages of flowery purple prose praising the delicate aroma, lingering body and exquisite head. Never forgetting to add references to some exotic locales, or foods, or drinks that they have seen mentioned somewhere on YouTube. There even might be a few anecdotes, older than dirt, cribbed from the internets and passed off as personal experience. And a healthy dose of barely hidden contempt for people who only drink Bud, of course. What do they know, having never tried that magnificent liquid in the fancy glass standing before them, clearly saying “Pauwel Kwak” right there!
Of course such people get extremely aggressive when hearing about something as basic as blind tests. Who wants to be exposed as a sham?!
I am sure that dCS sounds nice, for the astronomical money dCS wants for it it’d better. Whether it is superior to 150B very much depends on what you want from the DAC, a pleasing sound, or an accurate one. That it needs an external clock for over 7000 quid, on top of the price of the DAC puts it squarely into the category of products driven by marketing first and engineering last (if at all)…
I have tried several DAC’s that I own, but find that the Chord Qutest sounds by far the best, connected via usb cable. It adds more weight and body to the music while preserving the detail. Not saying the stock DAC in the Rose sounds bad, just that, to me, the Chord DAC sounds better.
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Thanks all friends. still waiting for your suggestion and experience 