Why Roon and not the Rose app?

ROSE Products RS130
#14

I’m still in doubt, I think the Roon interface looks better but the Rose interface becomes better every update.
But a long way to go to bypass Roon
The Rose app plays the sound on a higher level than the Roon app so it looks to sound better.
When you compare at equal level there is no difference.
But the question is, do you use a nice interface and pay a lot of money for it or do you use the free interface which comes free with your Rose device and accept the few issues
I don’t use the app all day, there are days I play just radio so in that case I use the app for maybe 20 seconds to find the desired radio station.

This is what I’m struggling with at the moment
For now I will extend my Roon subscription with one month

#15

Good insight. You have to use ROON alot to justify it

#16

Roon is so, so much better as Rose App, it‘s like night and day. Every streaming app is better, every - and I have experience!

But it’s your choice, you can listen to your music with the rose app if you have a lot of patience (endless DB Scans) and user experience is not very intuitively. Rose is working on improvements, you have 3 choices: Wait for the improvements, just be happy as it is, or buy ROON.

Soundwise I can recommend HiFi Rose, but I can speak only for the RS130.

#17

About slow scanning you’re right
Now I have 2300 songs on the internal storage and it’s scanning db now already for 3 hours :frowning:

#18

Yesterday, I installed my new RS130 with the Rose App (Android).
I can confirm the very slow initial DB scan (from NAS).
Anyway, I decided already for Roon (with separate Nucleus), before I ordered the RS130.
Reason: I have multiple room endpoint devices at my home, I like to control them all by one system /app (ex. SONOS etc).
So, Roon is the only way to solve it, in my case.
Beside that, when I tested the RS 130 at my dealer, I noticed a better sound performance by Roon, than by Rose App over the RS 130 (the R.A.A.T. might show it’s potential?).
Rearding to known and mentioned flaws of the Rose app, I can fully agree within the complaints…

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#19

I have been using Roon and a Roon server for more than five years. It is a lovely piece of software, but there are a lot of “buts.”

The most disturbing function for me is Roon’s search function. You have to type the exact name of the song. It is not like YouTube, Google, etc. If you miss something or make a typo, you will never find what you are searching for.

While Roon boasts a range of impressive features, I was taken aback when I encountered an issue with my Lampizator Gulf Stream Roon server. This powerful machine, when faced with any interruption, necessitates the shutdown of all DSP and upsampling functions. This was a significant inconvenience that I had to investigate. The result of my investigation is that even the producer of the most expensive streamer Roon server on the market recommends turning off all Roon’s DSPs, upsampling, and indexing functions. So, in theory, and according to the producer’s marketing, we are buying a wonder software, a mighty piece of electronics capable of providing the best. Still, after you purchase and try to use it as it was marketed, it’s surprising that all functions must be on or off, like a very basic software on a low-entry piece of electronics.

This is my personal experience.

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#20

None of this is a problem on even a rather low-powered NAS box, as long as it was made by people who actually know what a computer is. Lampizator is not one of such devices (and isn’t a Wadax far more expensive, although not any better at anything anyway?)

One (of many) problems with it is that since the only design approach these people know is “let’s throw useless but expensive stuff in it, so we can charge a ridiculous amount of money for crap” they’ve built it on a Xeon processor, which goes against all recommendations Roon Labs makes about the appropriate processor for a Roon server (what, you thought they would have checked what the requirements for Roon are?! :rofl: ). As a rather obvious result, a NAS box that (sans drives) costs less than the processor in Gulfstream has no problem indexing and streaming (with DSP and all) to multiple endpoints, and Lampizator craps out…

#21

Ok
In your opinion, Taiko’s Extreme Server is also a “piece of crap”?
Because of Taiko’s recommendation for Roon settings, it is the same: all off.

#22

Taiko? Of course it is crap. They want you to turn off all the things that make Roon a great system because they (“they” being Lampizators, Wadaxes and Taikos of the world) because they are all snake oil companies that do not know engineering, let alone computer engineering. When they sell “audiophile” bling it works because people want to believe that their $100K+ system sounds great and therefore believe it, even when it really does not. It is much harder to convince people that their $100K server works well, when in fact it has been designed by drunk monkeys and stutters every time it needs to do anything. So they tell you to turn all the good parts of Roon off, and then it can barely keep up. At that point you might as well throw Windows Media Player on it and use that.

Really, a NUC for a few hundred dollars can easily do all the things that they want you to turn off (well, maybe apart from DSD256->PCM->Convolution->DSD256 conversions, but that’s a pretty extreme case) while doing background analysis, indexing, and proper DSP to may your system sound correct in your room. With a properly designed convolution, a NUC is pretty much guaranteed to sound not just better, but “day and night, wife hears from the kitchen” better than anything any of these people did, do, or ever will produce.

#23

I still have a Nucleus +. I have been using this for many years as a Roon server, and it is very stable; I almost forgot that I have this gear in my network—no need to restart, no noise, nearly perfect.

I am saying almost because it is ok if it is used through intramet in RJ45 network connection. The USB output sounds terrible. This was the only reason for buying another streamer/Roon server.

I hope this new generation has improved this USB output; maybe I will try again.

#24

The Roon Server should only deliver the music- a Streamer/DAC does the job.
Of course you should not use the Nucleus as a player - without an extra silent PSU its awful.

If you really need an all in one device, (Server/Player/DAC) check The Grimm Audio MU2.
My next step is to try an Aurender N20 instead of my RS150 as a Streamer.
But to be honest - I’m happy with my setup - it works, sounds good - what should I expect more.

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#25

Yup, it’s a perfect appliance for the purpose. Mostly because Roon did not try to reinvent a (square) wheel and used an off the shelf competently designed in a custom case. And of course Roon Labs are far more likely to know what the Roon OS should contain than some thiord-party outfit…

I doubt that the new generation (Titan?) USB implementation is significantly different. It’s still a motherboard USB port. Honestly, I have never heard any issues with PC USB output, but this also depends very much on the DAC implementation. Some USB receivers are better thsn others.

You just need a competently made DAC. But Roon’s recommendation is (even if it is mostly lip services to the audiophile crowd) to stream from the server over a network.

#26

Since March, I have the RS130 and since June the Roon system (Nucleus etc…). In March I wrote here about the sound performance with Roon vs. RoseApp. I have to correct myself, that Roon <sounds better, than via RoseApp>. This was the quick listening experiences at the dealer at that time. Now, at home, I made direct comparisitions from identical source: RoseApp → RS130: sound is more quiet, warmer, open and more defined in spatial reproduction. Roon → RS130: sound is harscher and thin with less dynamic and compressed spatial reproduction. Via Roon, all filters are disabled, so that a ‘bitperfect’ transfer is applied. Further network and power supply optimization (KECES P8 for Nucleus and router) didn’t solve the lack of performance, instead the gap of the reproduction is bigger, than before! Now, I definitly prefer the (direct!) streaming via RoseApp instead Roon, but the Roon app/system is far better in managing the library etc… My question to this community: why is streaming via Roon comparingly bad compared with direct streaming of the RS130? Does the RS130 do buffering in it’s cache and via Roon not? (can that be the reason?). How is Roon interface protocoll implemented in the RS130 itself and can there be the fault? Other users confirmed the same lack of sound here and via other forums ex: Roon forum thread… What now?

Sound quality differences between Roon and Rose App
#27

Not the first time i read about this. I still have my RS150, using it as a streamer, and don’t hear any difference between local playback or over Roon.

Originally I planned to have a look on the RS130, but after todays reading, that the Optical USB can only be used with the Rose USB Hub, which has again a Power supply attached, then I’m out.
Galvanic noise blocking, and the adding again noise - I don’t get the concept.

About Rose App or Roon - as long as the Music DB is not state of the art, I stay with Roon, which has much more offer, than just giving access to my stored music.

#28

Amazing, things people can convince themselves they can hear, when they do not know how to properly compare them…

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#30

Some people do belkieve that certain 0’s and 1’s are more magical than the others :slight_smile:

There is no real standard for tags in WAV files, like there is for FLAC and similar, so some tools work well, some don’t, with any particular tagged WAV. BluOS is generally more mature, too.

Depending on a particular Bluesound model, there could be some audible differences, really, apart from the newer X and Icon, DACs in the Node line are not quite as good as Sabres that Rose uses.Although with your 130 it would mostly depend on what you have plugged into it.

Airplay is as silly as anything else Apple makes, and different versions of Airplay (or different combinations of source and receiver) might well be downsampling and even applying lossy compression which could be audible, too.

#32

There shouldn’t be, of course, and for network performance, it should be better, too.

THere wouldn’t be any either, FLAC (or ALAC) decodes into identical copy of the original WAV.

Indeed. And Apple wants you to use Apple equipment only for full effect.

#33

To my great despair Roon actually sounds colder, than the same song with the Rose app.

Yet Roon is more user-friendly to use!!

Gil

#34

I assume you have volume-matched? No difference in my system.

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#35

Because we only support Roon Ready and not Roon core.
We are currently unable to add Roon to Rose devices or the RoseConnect app, but we will try to make it possible in the future.

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