Well, yes,m of course. But sensitivity is not measured at the lowest frequency the speaker can play. It’s not even measured the same way across brands and models. Some can quote the level of pink noise, some white noise, some will just do a sweep and pick whatever gives the highest value. Often they just measure a 1KHz signal and call it a day.
Just because Cielos are 92dB sensitive somewhere does not mean that they are equally sensitive at 40Hz and below; if they were, they would not be down 3dB there
I agree with Bonte. Subs are not about shaking the room and rattling the glass, especially when it comes to music. I have pretty good front speakers, but I admit that the subs add something. I also enjoy pure two channel, no subs.
Now there is something to be said in support of visceral, room shaking bass when watching a movie like Dune or countless others.
Multiple subs is not about multiplying SPL, but rather correcting room issues like modes and nulls. Good room correction also helps. It is a good time to be alive to be a lover of recorded audio. (Notice that I didn’t use the term “audiophile” because I don’t want to suffer the wrath of Boris.)
“Just because the sensitivity of Cielos speakers is 92 dB at a certain point doesn’t mean they are equally sensitive at frequencies of 40 Hz and lower.”
–Speaker Efficiency/Sensitivity (dB) is
Measured in decibels (dB) at 1 W/1 m. But there is no specific methodology for such measurements.
It’s just an indicator for the listener’s choice. I’m not a Chario seller. I simply really like my Aviator Cielos. I’ve had many other speakers, but these completely meet my expectations.
And I actually play at 10 W, and the sound level is satisfactory. And there’s no point in commenting on that. I don’t intend to change anything in my optimal system, according to my assessment.
The final effect is just our individual assessment. Some people like a lot of sub-bass, others prefer a lot of midrange, and still others are deaf and think they hear high-end.
I repeat, if you love your system the way it is, that’s fine.
But don’t you want to think outside the box? Just out of curiosity (it’s human nature, after all).
And yes, you have a sub with 1x1 8“ drivers, but listen to subs with 12”, 15,“ or even 18” drivers. They can move a lot more air in the room (because they have a much larger membrane area). It definitely sounds much more voluminous.
But it’s a matter of personal preference when it comes to subs, and if you’re happy, that’s how it should be. Love your music and love your system.
Could be anything, as long as it is standardized. Unfortunately the best we get is 1W/meter of… something.
And I don’t doubt that they are probably good at what they do. If you like the sound, you like the sound. But physics is physics. Of course you don’t have to add a sub if you do not want to, but without it you are missing part of the frequency spectrum that is present in real music. And, at the same time, pushing the Cielos to play something outside of what they are really designed to do, where they just add some distortion.
The point of proper sub integration is that you are relieving your speakers of playing something they are not very good at (and your amp of trying to far more power than necessary just to try moving those 6.5" woofers far enough to do some bass) and letting a dedicated device with its own power reserves do it properly. That makes the speakers sound cleaner and better AND you get the full range of music reproduced.
All depends on the music though. Right now I am sitting in the office, with rather small bookshelf Revels that do not go much lower than 50Hz or so. Listening to Haydn’s piano sonatas, the sub does not even come on – Haydn didn’t use the left end of the piano much (technically, there still is something one could hear by manually powering the sub on and sticking one’s head into the driver opening, but not enough to turn it on by signal sensing, or hear from the listening position. But put on a symphony, and the sub very much comes on and the effect is very audible.
The point is not to shake the room with some random rumbling, it’s to reproduce the bottom range of what an actual instrument(s) can do at the correct volume and without adding too much distortion…
I completely agree with you here.
You don’t need to explain it to me, because audio has been my passion for 50 years. That’s why I chose my profession – electronics engineer, specializing in electronic circuits.
But my choices in audio are also driven by emotions, like most of us crazy audiophiles.
By the way, following your comments, I retuned my PV1 to a 40Hz cutoff (the filter isn’t steep) and adjusted the gain slightly, and now I yes even like streaming music. There’s more substance.
And that’s a perfectly valid choice – after all we listen to music (well, some of us anyway )for emotional effect. It’s when people start making objective claims that I often have to object.
I mostly deal with the software side but my grandma literally wrote a book on speaker design (professor of acoustics) and I have learned a thing or two.
40Hz should be better, although SVS’s sub matching tool suggests 50Hz but with a very steep slope (24dB/octave). B&W probably has a far less steep one so 40 should work as well… If you were to use e.g. EverSolo which can low-pass the sub and high-pass the speaker 40 with a gentler slope should work well. Best thing is to measure of course.
“although the SVS subwoofer matching tool suggests 50 Hz, but with a very steep slope (24 dB/octave). B&W probably has a much less steep slope, so 40 Hz should also work… If you use, for example, EverSolo, which has a subwoofer low-pass filter and a high-pass filter, a 40 Hz speaker with a gentler slope should work fine.”
That’s why I set it to 40 Hz due to the design of this filter. I constantly emphasize everywhere that Man is analog. Therefore, I will not change my configuration and the PV1 will continue to be driven from the Luxman output. That’s my firm stance.
–p.s. If your Grandma is alive, then best regards and respect for her contribution to audio knowledge.
And you, listen to your Grandma’s advice. Because experience is great Knowledge. And great knowledge is also great Experience.
As long as you are happy with it. Many audiophiles tend to miss (or willfully ignore) the difference between subjective and objective. If one enjoys even streaming lossy Spotify to a Bose radio it is all good as long as they like it. If they start going on that such a setup is “more revealing” or “lifts veils” or is somehow technically superior, that is not fine t all…
My personal opinion is that high-passing the speakers would make for better integration but this way is fine, too. In this case though I’d remove the PEQ bump and if necessary adjust the level on the sub itself.
Thanks, but alas no… She’d be over 110 years old now.
I repeat, if you love your system the way it is, that’s fine.
