Digital Signals Affected by EMI

ROSE Products RD160
#1

For those of us who always hear the “it’s 0 and 1 binary transmission so it’s all the same”

There are 2 points:

First, EMI (Electromagnetic Interference) can significantly affect digital signals causing disruptions like increased error rates, data corruption, and even complete loss of data transmission due to the noise it introduces into the signal path; essentially degrading the quality and reliability of digital information transfer.

Second, many digital circuit components(transistors and capacitors) are inherently analog and their function can be affected by EMI and other interference leading to issues described above , leading to degradation of audio signal.

So the whole my $100 streamer is same as a RS130 is just scientifically and factually false and ignorant. Same with arguments discounting quality cables. This is why the RD160 fiber optic produces clear sound improvement, because of fiber optics ability to physically block interference

It’s like 2 machines running the same coding , but one has top tier new circuitry , and one is running old and worn down stuff, even though the same code is being used, there obviously be differences in performance, delivery, and quality.

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#2

Bicycle,

You are absolutely correct. Claude Shannon would have agreed with you. Everything that is above absolute zero in temperature has noise which interferes with the signal.

StandardModel

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#3

Thank you sir. I thought it’s time we dispel the 0 and 1 fallacy once and for all.

#4

I totally agree with your post!

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#5

And here’s the idiot crew circle-jerking again.

Measure the number of errors at the streamer’s Ethernet input (any managed switch will tell you). Unless you ran your cables right through your microwave, number of errors will be 0 or close to 0 out of tens of millions of packets.

As usual, two-wheeler tries to speak about things that he can not and does not comprehend, and falls flatly on his face.

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#6

Please go away. Stop insulting people. You’re annoying and not contributing.

#7

Jeep,

Please block him. Here is my thread on how to block. You’ll be much happier. A lot of the regulars have blocked him, that’s the best way to deal with the troll. He won’t go away. Don’t feed the trolls.

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#8

This aain’t your forum, so you know where you can shove it.

You might want to take a long hard look at the mirror. Not that it would do much good with your lack of self-awareness.

This would be far more convincing had you contributed anything better than “muh feeleenz are better than your fact!”

#9

Good one! Like sunlight to a troll. Bye bye

Some people like to latch on to others trying to look just as smart. Not that I know everything but I really hate narrow-minded zealots. The ASR jihadis that are so brainwashed that they think they can crash any open discourse. And when they get exposed they get really nasty with ad hominems. Without probably understanding what that means.

Anyway. I agree that digital signals are not anything like theoretical models. I have seen ‘theoretical models’ being used by bureaucrats to detail our entire society. There is no status quo in science. The science is never settled. The earth is not flat (according to common understanding, but in which dimensions?) and rats do not come from autobiogenesis in old rags. The aether as a medium has been discarded long ago, yet now it’s not that clear if that was right. Dark energy and dark matter have never been observed or measured yet they are supposedly 95% of out universe. Or is it a stopgap for a flawed hypothesis where gravity holds our universe together? Or is it a plasma universe held together by EM force with linear function instead of quadratic decrease over distance?

Just like a lot of things Tesla knew about electricity has been buried. And how electricity really flows through a cable. It’s not a row of electrons zooming through a metalic grid but the vibrating magnetic field around it? Huh, cable risers suddenly make sense…
The largest amount of EMI occurring in our livingroom with all the SMPS and wifi signals, suddenly a properly shielded power cable doesn’t seem so unreasonable. Nor digital cables.

Caveat: that doesn’t say anything about how seriously EMI can interfere. That’s another matter of direction, distance, amplitude and frequency.

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#10

There is no one so certain as a person who has no clue.

StandardModel

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#11

Or some, like you, know that neither a $5000 power cable, nor a Chinese knock-off you got for $50 (because you are such a smart guy!) makes any difference, but lack even an iota of intellectual honesty to admit and instead stick their fingers up their ears and refuse to test anything. Because their precious little feelings are so much better than any pescy facts!

Do they make audiophile tinfoil hats?

#12

LOL well said. Thank the good Lord for the BLOCK function.

#13

All in the spirit of: “The more I know, the more I realise how much I don’t know” (I think that was Socrates?)

That’s the best attitude. Don’t just presume but try to find out why you get the results you get. The empirical method is still valid.

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#14

Well, your post is totally wrong. Yes, theoretically EMI can owerhelm digital signal to become unintegible by receiver side. Chance for that in reality - 0%. But if that happend you have always optical connection. Of course, noise can go over ground and make noise very audible. There are many solutions for that problem, one of them is optical connection. But if you crank up your smplifier while your streamer is connencted and hear silence - you have zero problems with electrical noise.

On the end of the day - every streamer (or any digital source) connected to a reclocking DAC has the same sound. Because the noise is not a woodoo, noise problems have simple and cheap solutions. and does not depends on quality of an streamer. I own an Rose 250A and Wiim pro. They sound apsolutely the same connected to any DAC with reclocking function. So, in terms of sound when you connect Rose Rs130 and Wiim pro over SPDIF - they sound the same. There is no technical reason they would not have the same sound.

2 Likes
#15

I’m not stating either position. I hope you’re right. I want to believe you’re right. And I’m not in the position to just go and buy expensive streamers to try them out. Also, I think that a dac should take care of properly handling a signal with galvanic isolation.

It’s easy to get convinced by people who seem to be very tech savvy that you need a DDC for reclocking. Very close to fear mongering. On the other hand there are the scientism zealots who simplistically state that ‘bits are bits’, which also isn’t true.

So I found the latest review of the Laiv Harmony by Goldensound refreshing. He knows the technical side, and he knows how to listen. He said, for a properly designed dac there’s no need for a DDC. Usb will be fine. I²s has its own challenges.

#16

How would you know? You never owned a high end streamer or DAC before. Do you own a RS130 or RD160 connected by Fibre? Every single person who has owned it noticed less noise and cleaned output. Again, we don’t wish to discuss with people like you only using imagination and theory without any real evidence or experience. All digital signals can be corrupted or influenced through analog transmissions or analog components. Everybody who has actually used Fibre on the RS130-RD160 combination knows this and experienced, except those that only use the incorrect knowledge and imagination with entry level equipment.

#17

That is correct. DDC is what is told - USB to SPDIF converter. If you have, for example an AudioNote DAC - you’ll need and DDC with a very good clock (or external clock input option) because AudioNote does not have any jitter correction nor USB port.

But if you connect an DDC with a very good clock to a any reclocking DAC, you just throw your money out of the window because receiving DAC will buffer DDC output and clock it on its own clock anyway…

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#18

Your conversation skills are awfull. How do you know which stremaer I do have now, had in the past, or listened to, for instance, on my job? You don’t. And where is a connection with digital audio theory and practice? How many DAC did you build your self? How many state-of-art professional DACs you ever used or have heard?

If you are talking about something, use arguments, not an ad hominem attack.

Obviosly, you do not know what you are talking about. Possesing a piece of equipement does not make you an expert in the field on digital audio. In practice, a digital signal can not be influenced by noise. It is easy to prove if all bits which started transmisson are received on the end. And guess what? They always do if something is not broken. What can make a difference is an electrical interference in the ground path. That is the reason for many people to choose optical way. And that is just fine and cheap method to avoid any potentional problem, despite being very rare. But that is not making a difference between the stremers themselves. Digital audio is designed to sound the same from whatever the source is. Who are you to challenge the whole inherent digital audio transmission design which works for last 40 years? YOu know better than AES engineers?

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#19

It’s not as hominem, you just said you only own rs250 and wiim, that means you’re still a beginner. Have you ever owned any higher end streamer ? You obviously didn’t because you trolls are always broke and justifying why you don’t own anything expensive. Once you buy rs130 and rd160, then tell me it sounds same as your wiim . It’s laughable.

#20

Hey I own an RS250! :angry: I’m not a beginner. I just can’t spend more. I’ve been looking for solutions other than a loud pc for decades. And the RS250 is the first one I really liked, that really works and that I had the money for.

And then a year later the market explodes with cheaper options, like Eversolo. That makes the Rose RS250 not really an entry streamer. Yet I don’t think I overpayed because I really love Rosetube. And the sound quality with an external dac is really ok.

But I know what you mean. :wink: And you’re not addressing me. :grin:
I have not listened to any other streamer. No shops near me. And I am really hesitant to spend more money on the RS151 or something that’s triple the price that I payed. My external dac makes a heck of a lot more difference.

BTW: why can’t Rose make a streamer only, without an internal dac cheaper than a streamer with all the extra stuff I don’t need? That’s so illogical.