Digital Signals Affected by EMI

ROSE Products RD160
#21

It is ad hominem, now second time. It does not matter what I currently have. Why would I spend a ton of money to have the same sound as over Wiim? RS130 is simply too big for my current setup. That is the reason I own an RS250. I will not talk about my skills and expirience in digital audio, it does not matter. What matters are the technical arguments you have. You should understand the basic principles of digital audio transmissions and talk with arguments. You obviously do not. I do not care if you own an pricey RS130. It is your money. There are a lot of reasons why would somebody own such a beautiful piece of hardware, but the sound is not among them. That is because on the output you have no sound, there is just an stream of coded information which cannot change because of budget gear. Time information can be of bad quality, but that is for the DAC to take care about.

The sound you should search in the DAC, not in the digital transport. I did not heard the RD160, but I assume it is singing beautifully and the two are the killer combo. I also do not know how good is RD160 in jitter rejection. This is one of the most important properties of an DAC which tells you how bad a transport and digital cables you can throw at the DAC. For instance, at Weiss DAC’s you can throw anything, it will sound the same.

2 Likes
#22

I do understand what you say. I own an RS250A for the pretty same reasons, the screen is really important for me, I use it a lot for hard drive play and CD play. Possibility to connect a cheap (and most important - small) CD player as transport and have a sound like a real CD transport is awesome.

And you have a good question, there are lot of budget options and all of them have integrated DAC’s, but transport only are reserved for upper class of the devices. IMHO it is relatively cheap to integrate a DAC and the market is responding in such a way that transport only is demanded in the higher class of devices.

#23

I agree: a thrown in dac doesn’t cost much.

However: the 201 is an all in one and yet it’s cheaper than the RS250. Is has a dac and an amp. It’s all topsy turvy. And its caused by marketing.

Yet, I want a big screen with the computing part of the RS151 with just usb and i²s output. Save investing on the PS and dac, input and output stage. Just a simple android pc with a screen and dedicated digital audio outputs. A stripped down version of the RS130.

The lower the price the bigger the market reach. Simple economics.

#24

Hey no worries, nothing wrong with owning RS250, I wanted to buy one too recently for smaller space and I’m sure the sound is great. I’m speaking specifically to the trolls who always say like no difference in dacs or streamer, i never met one yet that had a Fibre connected system.

1 Like
#25

Stop using your imagination and use actual data and science by trying the technologies and data you are opining on. This isn’t fantasy land, some of us actually own and compare these products unlike you.

#26

Again no argument except “I own” and “I hear”. Digital audio is not constructed that way. If you do not have any knowledge and expirience in constructing digital audio systems then listen the people who do. When you will be able to technically explain difference in two apsolutely same digital streams on the same reclocking DACs then you will have an argument. You even do not know very basic properties of your DAC in order to build the best quality system around it. There could not be difference between two galvanically isolated streamers hooked on the same reclocking DAC. There is no technical reason for that.

2 Likes
#27

It’s even more basic, you should own and test the equipment you are discussing rather than just using your imagination. It’s called science. All science is based on real world testing, not speculative imagination like you. If you have no experience with the product, please stop wasting our time with your fairy tales. We rely on science and actual experience here . You are obviously still a beginner. When you are able to obtain a Fibre optic system , we can talk again . Until then, your absurd , ignorant theories are not even amusing.

1 Like
#28

I am warning you again, you do not know with who you are talking with. YOu are talking with a scientist and try to convice me that your snobizm is a science, but my sientific arguments are imagination? But, ok, I can see that there is no way to circumnavigate the big snobbist in you, no argument can help, you are just talking in loop without any argument. Thank you for confirming my point of view. Happy cycling :wink:

3 Likes
#29

You really should be locked away…someone like you should NOT be let loose on humanity.

:boom:(Warning: Extreme danger…for cyclists with training wheels):boom:

Block this madman who is allowed to play with daddy’s toys.

Dad!
I appeal to your duty as a parent…let stupid bike do some manual work, then at least he’ll be so worn out in the evening that he’ll fall asleep without talking nonsense and then at least he won’t be able to sin.

#30

Why always “we”???

There really is no other bully fritz here than you!!!

:face_vomiting: It’s really starting to get really annoying :face_vomiting:

The way you classify people into social classes, which you make dependent on the ownership of their audio devices, is so sick that you really belong in a closed mental institution, but without a free pass!!!

Really pull yourself together here, little naughty boy. Otherwise daddy will come and you’ll get a beating.

#31

Can we please talk about the topic instead of attacking eachother? ‘We’ are all music lovers here. Something that binds us that has no grain of science in it. Unless you want to start disecting it and then you are missing the point.

I know the word ‘we’ is very dangerous. Is it ‘we’ opposing ‘you’ or ‘we’ are on the same page? Like the police asking “what do we think we are doing here?”. Actually, bicycle is very right. So there’s at least one second person in that ‘we’. Real science is about testing an hypothesis. Repeatable outcome. Anyone claiming to be a scientist should know that. FI history or geology are not science since you can’t repeat it. But there certainly are things you can test. Yet there are plenty of theories that are closer to religion than science. That is the problem with ‘science’. It’s becoming a ‘we’. “We scientists are telling you how the world works and if you don’t agree you’re not one of us”. That’s a cult, a religion. That’s scientism. That’s what our young people get taught in school. Or people claiming “I am the science”, “the science is settled” etc. Which is ridiculous and we’ve all felt the impact of that dangerous straightjacket. “You should be locked away”. Really? Why not reinstate the KZ especially for him? Remember that?

So, get off your high horse and be nice. Be a mensch. We are talking about a hobby. Something fun. Remember that?

PS: I don’t mean to be moralistic on my own high horse. Please listen to eachother without only hearing what you want to hear. A discussing without pulling up the barricades.

#32

!!! I’m not on a high horse!!!

All of these people have been so indoctrinated or brainwashed that they only

“let others think”

and believe everything. That’s why it’s appropriate these days to be a bit skeptical and to

“think for yourself” again.

Of course, it’s just a hobby…but look at the manipulation of entire peoples, how they are encouraged by individual elites to fight each other. That doesn’t have to happen here: I have 130/160 and you have no say here!!! :rage:

Where are we going with this?!?!

#33

Burley, so you are a pure scientist? So why is there so much emotion in your response? “Don’t you know who I am?” is a claim
to authority. Not a good claim. If I would like to know who you are, that is not a good start. I know how to read past that. But not everybody does.

I liked your other points much better. We made the same choice. Life’s all about choices. And engineering is about making compromises since physics just don’t bend to our preferences. Neither do finances.

I try not to be envious of other people who can afford more expensive things than I can. Nor being a snob to others who can afford even less. I can only help with sharing my experiences of what works for me. My choices don’t work for everyone.

I’m not an EE but usually I like to modify or make everything I can solder or glue together. Like amps, DACs, speakers etc. I like to try things out. Often my choices are different from what is offered commercially. That is a dangerous thing: commercial, profit. Funny how that never gives me the best deal.

BTW I still prefer vinyl over digital. There’s more music on it. It connects me to the music more than digital, no matter what clock or input. But you really need to shield the tiny signals from EMI. Just to throw a wrench in the works.

#34

I totally agree with that.
Brainwashing goes hand in hand with our education system. The more educated they are, the longer they have been brainwashed. So the most educated ‘scientists’ are often the staunchest defenders of scientism, not knowing there might be other sources of insight.

Maybe I didn’t understand your other reaction. If I missed the irony of your hyperbole maybe others also understood it the wrong way? “You shouldn’t be let loose on humanity” is not a good way to de-escalate things here.

#35

To reiterate the integrated dac part. I just saw the internals of the new RS151. It’s a $5000 streamer-dac. And it has a standard IC dac (ESS9039) and a standard output stage with 6 standard IC opamps. No matter how well it’s implementation, it ads considerably to the total cost. They even added in Wima MKP10 output caps (which I would give an 8/10). I don’t care for any of that.

That’s like a $1000 dac I don’t want.

I can buy a $200 dac (Fosi ZD3) with the same series dac chip (9039q2m) where I can decide my own discrete opamps that are MUCH better ($16 - 89/pc) and get an upgraded linear PS if I want.
With the Rose RS151 I’m stuck with some BB Opa opamps that are ok but not great. I’ve heard the difference, I have tried a lot of different opamps for my phonostage and the differences are significant. Discrete opamps even more so. Put some Sparkos 3602 in there and you won’t believe how big the difference is!

Design and marketing choices I would make differently.

#36

Where I said “I am pure scientist”? My claim conimg after 3 claims from Bicycle that i am poor and because of that I do not know nothing. No, it was not “do you know who I am” claim, it was response after three ad hominem insults.This was classical snob HiFi “purists” (i do not want to insult anybody, but obviously he behaves like that) attack in order to look “envious” Like you, I do not habve a reason for that. I do not like to talk about myself because it does not matter who you are and what you have. To be honest, I can have whatever I want (in normal terms in this hobby) and I am a studio sound engineer as profession, wih decades long expirience.

I like vinyl too, but prefer digital. I like vinyl for genuine pressings from the analog source. There are too many bad digital masters out there of old analog recordings, so for old stuff I rather stick with vinyl. On tiny analog signals you have to be carefull about EMi and ground loops, bud digital is totally another beast…

1 Like
#37

Yes, of course it was/is meant ironically!

But there is a lot of truth in the irony too!

I also grant him 10x 130/160 or NAGRA AUDIO… why should I be jealous???

To each his own!

I repeat again:

I don’t like the way he calls other chat members trolls and he could perhaps learn something from such people if he had any sense.

For me he is not tolerant enough and is taking the easy way out by blocking some chat members.

Such people are called ignorant or egoists.

With that I will close the tedious topic.

Humanity is being led in this direction so that we cannot agree.

It would be a great danger for the cabal if 99% stuck together and rebelled against the one percent who have the power.

Have a nice Saturday…:v:t2:

1 Like
#38

You are arguing with some trust fund baby idiot who can only listen with his wallet.

The funny part is that his trust fund is rather pathetic, and he can’t even afford anything really high-end anyway.

It’s fun to poke it with a stick and wonder how someone that stupid could even turn the computer on though.

1 Like
#39

I have RS250A hooked to a RME DAC, it is better than integrated and better than McIntosh DA-1 which also have. Upgrade is planned toward end of the year. It will probably be one of Weiss DACs. For the bigger Rose I have no free space anyway. I am very happy with RS250… Of course some things could be better, but that is another topic. So, yes, on the end of the day we are stuck with streamers which have internal DAC we do not need.

#40

I have considered the Weiss dac after seeing Steve Huffs review. I’m glad I didn’t have the money then.

Also, I remember visiting a show over 10 years ago with a friend. Two systems were set up costing literally a ton of money. As in >€100k. Focal Stella Utopia + McIntosh on one side and Naim and KEF Blades on the other. Focal + McIntosh sounded really good. But I missed detail and naturalness. Bass was good but even with the electromagnet woofers not as fast as my Genesis VI. IMHO it was the dac holding it back. I just finished working on my own dac where I did a lot of testing and listening. After that first R2R dac I can’t go back to IC sigma delta DACs.

When they switched to Naim + KEF I walked away. It just sounded dead and squawky (like talking with cupped hands in front of your mouth). Once you hear it…you can’t unring a bell. And Naim… just never appealed to me. Neither does McIntosh. My simple 300B tubeamp does the trick better.

Anyway, what I wanted to say; I was saving up for the Denafrips Venus when the new Laiv Harmony R2R dac came out. It’s compact, has a remote and a screen so I can stay in my seat and it sounds truly awesome. Highly recommended. The only minus for me is that it can’t play DSD native, just like Weiss. But it can play it, unlike Weiss.
It’s a new brand from Singapore but it has its focus on natural , full, live sound with holographic soundstage without sacrificing detail, air or bass. And its design is a work of art.