External clock for Rose 130

ROSE Products RS130
#1

I use Hifi Rose 130 as my streamer (which i upgraded from HifiRose 150) I just got an external clock Afterdark GIESEMANN OCXO 10MHZ REFERENCE MASTER CLOCK (AUDIOPHILESTYLE EDITION) Emperor Signature SE version together Afterdark matching LPS and here is sharing my experience. I use 75 ohms clock with the premium cable that cones with it. BTW - I use i2s cable to connect to Rockna DAC. I also use Finisar 1318 SFP 1G with Corning Single Mode Optical Cable to connect my rose and use tidal for streaming.

Using this external Ocxo clock is a game changer for me and at a level of an equipment upgrade for my system. It feel almost as big a change as moving from Rose 150 to Rose130 (assuming i used the same DAC) - Everything is better - soundstage, vocals, timbre, smoothness, bass, etc. I am so glad that HIfi rose has the external clock input. I think it is definitely worth a try if to check out if you systems benefits in the same way as mine did. It is so far only 24 hours in my system and i am told it has a run in time of 35 days and take 48 hours to stabilise. It should only get better from here on. Would be happy to hear from others who have tried the external clock upgrade. I think an i2S connection may be essential to the DAC to get the benefit of external clock attached to the streamer but i am not sure.

1 Like
#2

The DAC is slaved over I2S connection to the Streamer clock (RS130). The DAC is ignoring its own clock when connected over I2S because it is getting the clock signal over I2S from the Streamer (RS130).

With your DAC feed it with USB which is asynchron and does not carry a clock signal.

Best way , in my opinion, is to pick up a DAC with clock input and galvanic isolated USB input and use one clock (master) for the streamer and DAC… You get the best SQ. Just my opinion, others may differ.

1 Like
#3

I use rockna wave dream signature balanced dac, which is a kick ass DAC and I am super happy with but it lacks the clock input.

I am quite pleased with the external clock to the streamer given the improvement in SQ.

#4

You do have a great setup. Try USB and let me know if you hear any difference. I am not 100% sure but I think you may prefer it but either way I think you are correct an external clock is the way to go.

#5

I have a good quality occ silver usb cable. Will try it as well. I thought i2s was the best connection but no harm in trying USB. Will let me clock run in a bit more before I try that.

#6

I do believe i2s is the best connection with one exception when using an external clock. You want to be assured if you have a good master clock that the master clock is the only clock being used as you don’t want to introduce additional jitter. In reality what is best is a streamer to dac i2s connection where the streamer’s clock is top of the line and the dac is the salve to that. In i2s that is how it works. But sometimes (and I can’t say this with the RS130 as I don’t know) internal clock implementation for streamers is not often done well but I suspect with the RS130 it is done very well, but is it better than a external master clock, I don’t know. At least you can have fun and have options. . That could be the case in the RS130 and I prefer direct i2s connection myself but again preferences differ.

#7

Btw - Rockna wavedream has an option in the menu to choose local clock or streamer clock. I always set it on streamer clock.

Will try the usb in a few days and then provide my feedback here.

1 Like
#8

Also the Femto class system clock that mounts
the 150b has very high precision (one millionth of a billionth) and reduces any jitter phenomenon to a minimum. In my opinion, what can make the most difference is the i2s. However, we are always talking about details regarding USB not always detectable

#9

I’m also thinking about buying the same afterdark but so afraid I don’t hear the difference.
The GIESEMANN OCXO 10MHz Reference Master Clock (Audiophilestyle Editition) Emperor Signature SE including the power supply is around 2000 euro so almost half the RS130 price.
So, is it really worth the money?
And why did you choose for 75 Ohm and not 50 Ohm?

#10

This is my opinion on using an external clock with the RS130 based on a bit of testing I did earlier this week. I have been playing around with the RS130 and testing the various inputs and outputs to see what works best and thus far copper ethernet vs. optical made no difference in the sound, optical USB vs. regular USB made no audible sound, and finally testing an external clock made no audible difference.

I tested using the clock output from my AudioPraise VanityPro DSD from HDMI extractor that has a good quality ultra low noise VCXO clock. This should be a downgrade from the OCXO clock in the RS130 all things being equal. In listening to streamed audio in various PCM and DSD bit rates and over both USB and I2S outputs, along with using the same files stored on a portable hard drive connected over the optical USB, and finally using the RSA780 CD drive to play standard Redbook CD’s. In all cases I could not decern any audible difference between the two clocks.

I think my system chain is decent consisting of the RS130 into a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE (over I2S or USB) then into a ROSE RA180 integrated amp connected to B&W 805 D4 speakers. I also tested using Focal Utopia headphones fed from a T+A HA200 headphone amp.

Given the RS130 has an OCXO clock built in and tightly coupled to the streamer I find it hard to see how an external clock can better that outside of potentially measurements outside the audible range. In my opinion use the money you save to buy acoustic room treatments, better amp or speakers. All will provide a bigger improvement in the sound of your listening space.

In terms of why get the 75 ohm vs. the 50 ohm output. In general low power signal will propagate better in 75 ohm over 50 ohm. However, given the likely short run between the clock and the streamer either one is perfectly acceptable and you are unlikely to hear a difference.

These are my opinions on the subject of external clocks but if folks want to buy them I say go for it if it makes you happy. Enjoy the music :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#11

One way to analyse is how sensitive is your system is to any change. It can be dependent on so many individual factors (eg: electricity - I live in a condo and the electrical supply is by design noisy). My system is very sensitive to any change - I change any cable connected to system and I can hear a subtle diff in sound - it may not be good diff or bad diff but there is a diff. I change from a regular $10 cat cable to a $10 fiber cable and for me it cleaned up the sounds a whole lot. Most people based on forum find the change from copper to fiber cable making a huge diff. Clock change was a big deal for me. Btw - we tried the external LHY clock for $450 and on my friends rose 130 and it made a big diff in his set up too, which is actually what gave me the confident to spend $2k on the Afterdark clock. 75 ohms sine wave was recommend to me by Afterdark chat support.

#12

It is interesting to hear that none of these made any diff in your set up. For me the clock was a big deal. In fact my mom who is 76 and not an audiophile was I sitting with me when I changed to the external clock and she said - “what did you do - it improved the sound a lot?”

Your set up is very decent and my friend also uses holo audio spring 3 DAC and the $450 LHY clock made a big diff. I also use b&w speaker - the 802 d4:

#13

For me it is worth every cent in fact I feel I should have gone for a couple of models higher. Haha. one way could be … change from copper to fiber internet first and see if you hear any diff. If yes - go for clock - if not - maybe it will not make any diff to you.

#14

@ROSEHAN can you tell us the phase noise from the used OCXO clock in the 130?

#15

This is a very interesting story about external clocks

#16

@Bitspeed

We will deliver the information you requested regarding phase noise from the used OCXO clock in the 130.
image

#17

Screenshot_2023-10-23-13-18-20-44_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12
Screenshot_2023-10-23-13-18-20-44_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b121080×2061 148 KB

When I compare the figures then it seems the phase noise from the ref10 nano is much better than from the build-in clock.
So using this external clock should enhance the sound quality.
Or am I wrong?
This external clock is 1995 euro so worth a try maybe

#18

@Bitspeed

I forwarded the photos you sent to the hardware team for a response.
The lower the numerical value, the better the performance.
Even if the external clock you use is good, it seems more appropriate to use the built-in clock of the RS130 because the clock built into the RS130 was made exclusively for the RS130.

Thank you

#19

I have a Rose 130 arriving in the next few days which I will compare to my Aqua LinQ.

I will be using a self-made oxco with -118dB @ 1Hz clock and Neotech 75 ohm cable.

Keen to see how it performs.

Can I use Bubble uPNP with the unit ?

#20

Hello everyone, I am looking into CC1v2 from Grimm, but I am not good in reading the spec… do you think CC1v2 offer better clock than RS130 internal clock?

Here it is what quoted from Grimm production introduction: The CC1v2 can use the exclusive PLL phase-locked loop to greatly reduce the front-end signal generation. The time base error can attenuate the time base error of 90dB at 10Hz, and the time base error of 60dB can be further eliminated from 10H to 100Hz. ………