Fiber/Fibre Ethernet vs locally stored music - sound quality

ROSE Products RS130
#1

I’m really enjoying my RS130 with my Warwick Bravura headphones

I’m thinking about my next tweak - I’m comfortable with the quality of my power, coax and ethernet cables so been thinking about a fibre ethernet connection

This afternoon, I’d been listening to two playlists with identical songs in identical order. One is streaming from my Roon server with the RS130 as a Roon endpoint (via copper ethernet/Audioquest Cinnamon ethernet) the other is streaming from a USB stick in the back of the RS130

I can hear/enjoy the improvement of subtle upgrades and I’m also susceptible to the glare/veiling that RF/EMI noise brings and how things sound when it is reduced.

I ran this test to figure out whether I’d see the benefit of a £500 investment in a fibre ethernet connection to the RS130 (thinking Gustard N18 Pro, 2x SFPs, and a single-mode optical cable) - i.e if the local files sound the same as the copper network streamed version, then the network isn’t degrading the quality with noise and my investment might not yield anything

Is my experiment flawed? Is testing USB against a network a flawed test because of noise on the USB stick?

Would welcome some thoughts, particularly if you found a fibre netwrok connection to be beneficial

Thanks!

#2

The only valid methodology is measuring the output from DAC terminals. Or, barring that, double-blind listening test, volume matched etc. etc.

But if you want to believe that there can be difference, as you do believe in FraudioQuest’s “ethernet” (not really) cables, or noise on USB sticks, you will hear any difference you want and happily waste even more money.

#3

I don’t agree with your measurement theory. I believe in my ears. For example, I love an R2R DAC, but they measure poorly compared to delta-sigma - but do they sound better, yes, to my ears

I didn’t ask the question “hey, does anyone agree that cables make a difference?” - I’ve already established that to my ears they do. I was asking a specific question, that you’ve ignored and gone on your own crusade… maybe start your own thread for that one?

1 Like
#4

You can believe in Santa Claus for all anyone cares, but do not conflate a preference for different sound, and R2R DAC, which does measure differently, may well sound different, having far more noise, distortion, and being generally inaccurate. If you prefer that sound, that’s a perfectly valid preference, just like some people like tube amps, Bose speakers, and vinyl. Some people actually like McD hamburgers, too.

No, you did not. You’ve never performed any valid comparison. You did successfully persuade yourself that the money you’ve wasted on fake cables was “well spent.” Now you want some confirmation and admiration from others. It’s much easier and far more pleasant than trying to learn anything and realizing that if you’ve paid big bucks for a FraudioQuest “cat 7” cable you’ve been swindled, and that all the other things you’ve listed can not make any difference. Because physics.

But alas, physics is hard. Throwing money around and pretending that it makes you smart is easy.

There’s no shortage of low-IQ forums around where you can engage in some mutual self-pleasuring with other believers in cables, sonic differences between brands of fiber and what not. Here, so far, we’ve been allowed to point out at reality, even if not everyone is capable of comprehending it.

2 Likes
#5

@LWR I did find that connecting the RS130 via fiber as well as using the RSA720 to connect my DAC via fiber yielded sighted/subjective sound quality improvements. Not night and day but lower noise floor, more detail, bigger soundstage. You can find several posts on the forums talking about this, including recommendations on SFPs, given the low cost this is a no brainer.

Unfortunately, for me the stability of RS130/RSA720 and lack of HQPlayer NAA made me move my RS130 out of my sound room and I now use GentooPlayer NAA running on a Holo Red/Holo May KTE. I can’t say side by side if its better (impossible to do blind A/B testing when I can’t get my DAC connecting to RS130) but it just works reliably and sounds as good (better with HQPlayer) as my all fiber RS130/RSA720 setup.

1 Like
#6

I’ve been haunting high-end audio shops for sixty years, and I’ve heard all kinds of psychoacoustic hooey. One sales rep tried to convince me that “directional” cables (marked with little arrows) would let me train the electrons to always move in the same direction. That was the most egregious instances, but it wasn’t the only one.

Back in those days, cartridge manufacturers provided test records; electronics manufacturers conducted clinics where you could bring in your equipment for profiling; and honest salespeople would help you figure out the best positions for your speakers.

All of that notwithstanding, there was and is no accounting for taste. Nobody does hearing tests in an audio store; and what would you do if your ears were different from someone else’s? For that matter, what if your own two ears were different?

As I’ve said before, what moves across ethernet, WiFi, or USB is strictly digital. As with all digital signals, what goes in one end comes out the other (unless your network fails). The only place the audio signal could be degraded is on the analog side.

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#7

I disagree with this. My experience says otherwise. I’ve been writing code for 41 years in some form or another - either games in my bedroom as a teenager or super low latency electronic pricing and trading systems. So I feel comfortable with the engineering of 0’s and 1’s.

No-one ever argues that digital is about 0’s and 1’s. People do argue that digital isn’t only about 0’s and 1’s. I can blind test the difference between components in my system that minimise the RFI/EMI carried along with the 0’s and 1’s and components that don’'t

I haven’t asked for a debate on is RFI/EMI a thing in the digital domain. I’ve asked “if I play a file from a local USB on the RS130, if it doesn’t sound different to streamed over copper ethernet, does that mean my copper ethernet doesn’t have and issue?”

#8

I would advise against engaging in futile discussions. The most constructive approach is always to conduct your own tests—such as comparing a high-resolution local file stored on an SSD with a streamed high-resolution version. You’ve already done this and observed subtle differences.

The common claim that “it’s just 1s and 0s—it either works or it doesn’t” relies on the assumption that all other variables are equal, which is rarely the case in practice. If someone is unwilling to acknowledge this, then the conversation is unlikely to be productive.

This is why I recommend simply muting or ignoring individuals who repeatedly echo the same simplistic arguments without any willingness to explore deeper nuances.

#9

How about physics? Are you comfortable with physics?

If it did sound different (it did not, but that’s the question of experiment design) there would be a question of what was broken in your equipment, as apart from conscious design decisions there is no way for the two to sound different if everything is in good order.

That assumes that one is capable of conducting a valid test. Which does not appear to be the case.

Surprise surprise. That’s because there are no deeper nuances there; one just need to be somewhat familiar with physics to realize that, and that’s way too much to ask from the crowd that not only buys a directional, cat 7, audiophile ethernet cable from FraudioQuest but even acknowledges that in public.

1 Like
#10

CleanShot 2025-05-22 at 17.17.01@2x
CleanShot 2025-05-22 at 17.17.01@2x3226×642 160 KB

Now that’s better, carry on! :slight_smile:

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#11

I agree about RFI/EMI. You’re also correct about that interference having nothing to do with the binary data. I have a USB turntable that introduced a nasty ground loop. But that had nothing to do with the audio information. It just meant that my equipment didn’t have adequate isolation.

The same issue would apply to any connection capable of conducting electricity. USB, ethernet, and analog cables are metallic, and that’s the source of the problem.

A fiber optic connection should be almost totally immune.

The most extreme example I ever heard of was in the early days of ethernet, when the cables looked like garden hoses. Some poor engineer got electrocuted by the DC carried from one end of the cable to the other. The cable wasn’t even connected to any equipment yet. It was the difference in ground potential from one end of the building to the other that did him in. Our hardware guys were given special equipment and complex procedures to make sure that it didn’t happen again.

Believe it or not, I ran into this when I was growing up. We had a radio sitting on a metal kitchen counter, and the neutral in the AC socket was several volts away from the ground of the counter.

2 Likes
#12

I can’t find the ignore option. Torture!

#13

Click on your image on the top right corner, then choose user, preferences, notifications and user to block.

#14

Now that we’ve moved away from coaxial ethernet though, it is galvanically isolated by definition, unless you purposely get shielded cables, which you should not do in hom environment.

#15

Yeah, that’s another good indicator of the level of intelligence people buying high-end Ethernet cables and hearing the difference possess.

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#16

You are wasting your time with Boris M.All he does is spew his very acrid opinions and know it all attitude.He is well known for this in the community!!

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#17

Aren’t you late for your Flat Earth Society meeting? They are only waiting for your Very Important Opinion rto finally shut down those pesky astronomers once and for all!

#18

You know Boris to be a SMART ALECK is one thing but to be a shiit disturber is another so if you can’t play nice and be polite then to play somewhere else where YOU WILL BE APRECIATED, not here. We do apreciate your experience but not your way of talking down on people. If MODERATORS ALLOWS THIS BEHAVIOUR then its not my place anymore.

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#19

Agree with the comments here on disruptive. I come here to enjoy the hobby and get the best out of my Hifi Rose investment. I’m completely OK with differing opinions, but not ones that are positioned in a way that closes the debate

I asked a very reasonable question here, consistent with getting the best from my RS130; it hasn’t been able to be answered because @BorisM has, yet again, blocked the discussion, not with a differing a opinion, but a tone and argument that blocks debate.

If a manufacturer specifices an architecture that allows for copper network playback, fiber network playback and local “no network” playback, and it invests in a design that solves for clean power so that signals aren’t contaminated with RFI/EMI (you seen that torroidal transformer inside?), then it’s perfectly reasonable to discuss the differences playback approaches have on sound quality. The RS130 is not a Google Chromecast - it’s not utility, it’s at the high end and surely it’s OK to discuss how you get the best out of high end without such disruptive contribution that shuts down debate?

@Moderators - if you built this place to create a safe space to discuss your products and build community, this guy is killing it.

1 Like
#20

I’ve had nothing to do with him so far and I’m happy to do without him. But I also find his posts extremely annoying. Regardless of whether he is right or wrong in some respects - the tone of his posts is subterranean, inappropriate and hurtful. I’ve taken the trouble to read his most recent posts, regardless of the thread - all I can see is that he’s just trying to stir up trouble here and to get rid of members. It’s a shame, but he seems to be a troll who’s out to do nothing but cause trouble. In any other forum he would have been kicked out a long time ago.