I ordered the Lyngdorf TDAI 2210 yesterday. Completely desillusioned after 2 years of RS520. I always enjoyed the great sound, if there was sound … Got so sick an tired of this brand, its company and its lame words in this forum, like if they are talking to the kindergarten.
Untested software, unreliable updates, malfunctioning HMI, no spotify lossless support, no tidal connect support, instead of this making money and pushing a hardware box through our throats, hanging interface, hdmi dropouts, SPDIF dropouts, volume hickups, sudden restarts, jumping volumes because the different interfaces are not aligned correctly (app, the 520 itself, and the windows app), no response to remote, multi multi (!) step hmi, and so on and so on. And then I may consider myself lucky if compared to the users on this forum spending thousands euros/dollars for this crap. Thanks forum members. Hope some day things get better.
I don’t you’ll regret that decision.
I haven’t had any issues w my RS520 so it works for me.
The 2210 was on my short list, along w a couple of other options.
Dude, take some Xanax.
First I just told Herr Schutz that he will enjoy his Lyngdorf. Its one I considered but got the Rose due to price. (You just seem peeved I got a better deal.)
Now I’m sorry you’re having a bit of a rough time about it.
However… If memory servers… you seemed to give your dealer a pass and continued down the path where i’d have gotten a different unit or refund for a different product. I would have expected the dealer to do their best to make me whole.
You keep saying you’re looking elsewhere for a solid investment… yet you’re still here.
You think too highly of yourself, while admitting that you’re attempting to be annoying.
Sorry, you’ll have to work much harder.
I’d say the reason you find me annoying is that you’re really annoyed about the situation and how you handled it.
Like I said… if I was in your situation… I’d have either gotten a replacement unit, under warranty, or demanded a refund and moved on to something else.
Hey Mikey
You should have done that!!!
Lyngdorf is a “jack-of-all-trades”… You really missed out, and @HerrSchurz will be licking his fingers.
It was one option…
The issue was price.
Suppose you could have the RS520 for $2200 ? (Slightly used)
What could you get that would beat it and still spend less than 3K? (USD)
It was a great deal that you couldn’t pass up.
Its like getting older speakers that when new retailed for 2.5K USD for around $500.00 and then spend $250 to recap and upgrade the XO?
But seriously… The 2210 is a good system. You can go thru a lot of great brands and they all have an AIO that could meet or beat the RS520. (I’d say it was a mid tier) The question is how much do you want to spend and which features are important?
I will say that one of the lessons learned here… buy local… if any doubts… don’t buy it.
RS 520 no room correction!
I already posted that this is important to me!
Besides, the distributor in Germany is in Hamburg, and I could be there in three hours.
The 520 is a great device, but when I buy something, I want something new and unused. It’s a quirk of mine. Just like with cars. If I don’t have the money right now, I save up and wait until I can afford a new device.
I know everyone sees things differently, and for things I don’t care about that much, I might not care whether it’s new or used (e.g., a hammer).
If you’re happy with it, that’s fine, and for a secondary system, I would also buy a 520 again, but only as a Roon endpoint, because it’s suitable for that.
Of course, it also depends on the streaming services you use.
Many Spotify users will likely think twice about buying devices that don’t even support lossless audio. They will then forgo the great display because it’s about the music and the quality in which they can hear it.
Apart from the price, and we’ve already discussed this a thousand times, reputable manufacturers can do the same for a fraction of the price of a rose.
Rose “must” work on this to live up to its reputation. At the moment, Rose is not living up to its corporate philosophy by saying we have high-end devices that work very well.
Many don’t want to wait so long for significant progress from Rose and go to the competition, which offers what Rose hasn’t managed to achieve in two years, because they simply want to enjoy their music and don’t want to constantly engage with the device.
I read everything here in the forum, and many forum members have already raised issues (or bugs) years ago that still haven’t been fixed today. That’s my opinion, and everyone here in the forum has a different one.
So, Mikey, that was my statement…
I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
In terms of used… right now its been thru dealers and only because I can get more bang for my buck. Note that there are somethings I won’t buy used… Headphones and IEMs also small portable units.
(It really depends on the price and the specific situation.)
I think its better to talk about the competition than just waste time bashing Rose. There are multiple people here who just do that.
I agree to talk about the warts and all. Including the lack of room correction.
(This may get Rose’s attention versus just being negative and bashing them.)
HOWEVER… w respect to room correction… Rose would end up going w Dirac and I’ve heard mixed results from people. I did use it w my old AV receiver… the sound was just slightly better. Not a feature that’s high on my list. So its something we’d have to pay for… better EQ and maybe balance control? Sure.
My pet peeve is the Wi–Fi , BT dongle. (I’ve since run a long CAT 8 cable around the room so wi-fi is off) and then used my MB20 via the toslink in for BT. There is really no reason Rose couldn’t upgrade and support more USB dongles including using BT and wi-fi separate dongles. Its PnP so they could ship w multiple drivers for their Android OS.
The other downside… if I’m using my MB20 via toslink… even with no music playing… the device doesn’t recognize it and doesn’t auto suspend after an hour of no music.
Hi Mikey,
That’s why I’m posting here!
I am trying to verbally inspire Rose with features that other manufacturers have integrated into their devices, which are sometimes cheaper than Rose products.
That’s why I use RoomPerfect…
Why? It’s certainly the most common and available one, but there are other options. Even Lyngdorf’s RoomPerfect could theoretically be licensed – McIntosh did that for some models. And Linkplay (and EverSolo etc…) just developed their own.
Even easier, they could just allow applying convolution filters, however the user comes up with them. That should be possible even on current models within the current iteration of RoseOS. User could use anything they want, from REW to Acourate etc. etc.
Sure, for really competitive product you’d need to throw in an extra $20 DAC chip or two for the subwoofer output(s), but even without it it would be an improvement.
Like anything requiring user input, results from Dirac are very much determined by the user having a clue when designing the correction.
Boris,
Why Dirac?
You already answered it.
Its the most common one out there.
This means the least amount of risk. Those who know Dirac don’t have to learn a new tool.
Then there’s the issue of licensing costs and support.
Since you’ve constantly bashed Rose over their OS and software… ask yourself if you were them… would it be better to build or buy. And usually the answer end up being to buy because it appears to be the least risky and less costly in the long run.
The other issue is time. It could be faster to integrate Dirac than writing their own from scratch.
So you have to consider time to market. And also where do you prioritize this in their ever growing list of things to do.
Yes, Boris, that’s correct. I know this from my email correspondence with Lyngdorf, who confirmed the question to me.
I take my hat off to people who work with or are familiar with REW and similar systems.
But doing your own room calibration and then sending it to a company to get ready-made filters is also a brilliant idea!
Assuming you have the expertise (like you do).
Many people can’t or don’t want to do it, which is why things like RoomPerfect, Dirac, etc., were developed.
I can’t do it either, you know that, I’ve posted it to you several times.
So I prefer to walk around the room with a microphone (which is what you have to do too), take a few measurements until RoomPerfect is satisfied, and then I’m done. Naturally, because of my ignorance, I have to pay more for a device.
I’m fully with you again, Boris!
Then there’s something like what NAD does… integrated BluOS, with room correction… everything’s there, so why not Rose? If these good-looking devices had that too, Rose would be perfect for me.
I assume so, but I can’t prove it.
Some have suggested it might be related to a Spotify license, which is why lossless streaming isn’t possible on Rose devices.
I can’t prove anything posted here, and I don’t even use Spotify.
Ultimately, Rose must be able to answer his loyal customers’ questions professionally.
Conclusion:
I agree with both of you and will continue to follow Rose’s “success” story, as I always see the positive side.
If I’m still alive, I’ll see what the hi-fi industry is like in ten years and how Rose has developed.
So long, you two fighting cocks…
So REW isn’t the easiest… which is why people prefer DIRAC or some other system.
(You want to go extreme there is BACH)
But while Lyngdorf may license their software… the question becomes of licensing costs and support as well as integration into their existing infrastructure.
There are a lot of factors and variables that go into this type of decision.
And again… which market has the greatest impact on Rose? Do they focus on Korean, US, EU, etc … and what features they want?
I don’t know either. And while I haven’t played w Room Perfect… I wasn’t impressed w Dirac at least 8-10 yrs ago… and while I do have REW… you really do need a good mic and in near field listening… its kinda moot.
You’re kind of right.
I watched a video about Bacch a while ago. I had to find it again. 
But it’s too expensive §§§.
My room calibration is sufficient for me, and I still hear my pseudo-quadraphonic sound because my father set it up that way back in the '70s.
Of course, finding the right rear speakers was a big search for me. I don’t sit in the middle of the room. The couch is against the wall at the back, and if I had four identical speakers, the rear ones would be overpowering.
So I needed speakers with higher efficiency at the front.
The rear speakers are only meant for subtle effects.
Everything is controlled by RoomPerfect. All speakers are connected in parallel to the 3400 (I’m not allowed to advertise) because I didn’t want an amplifier for the rear speakers.
Of course, it only works with load resistors…you know, with parallel connection:boom: 
amplifier output stage or shutdown of the output stage due to insufficient resistance.
I had the same setup with the 520, and it sounded good because I didn’t have room correction.
I just wanted to say that I can create a nice, spacious music listening experience with it.
Expensive isn’t always better, and the older equipment wasn’t, and still isn’t, bad in my opinion. We’re just being pushed in the wrong direction by the HiFi and high-end mafia.
Greetings to all fans of HiFi Rose and pseudo-quadraphonic or true quadraphonic sound.
And for a reason – it works reasonably well, and is easy enough to use. So realistically speaking, it is the most likely DRC system that would be used.
Adding some DSP to apply a convolution filter would be free, there are open source libraries that would do the job perfectly well, so it’s only the cost of Rose’s developers adding some UI and integrating the filter in thee existing signal processing chain. Of course we know how long that would take them 
You can’t say with a straight face that their software is good. And I did (and do) defend them from unreasonable demands (e.g. “muh phone has Android 16, Rose needs to update immediately hurr hurr” long before you even got yours. That said, DRC is something you get on a Wiim (homegrown) or a Node (Dirac).
Sure, it’d be faster, but this has been an ask for years now. They just aren’t in a hurry either way – remember, this is a company that thinks PEQ should not be enabled on a “flaghship” device and spends time coding a half-assed PIN protection literally nobody (including the EU) asked for.
Or Lyngdorf. Or, ignoring some huge Harman brands, so do Primare, Rotel, Focal, Bryston, etc. etc. A lot of those companies are quite small, but that does not prevent them from writing working software and integrating Dirac (or something else)…
Yeah, I’ve seen the BACH at AXPONA. Ran into Audiophile Junkie who’s heavy into BACH and promotes it. So I had to check out the room.
Very interesting.
And no, I don’t think its worth it.
And now there’s this new Pink Faun Streamer for 20K or so…
The kicker is that it could be in the USB out that causes the most difference.
BACCH is not a room correction system per se. More about applying something like binaural to speaker reproduction. Which is quite intensive computationally and interesting technically, but other than a novelty value isn’t how I would want to listen to real recordings…
Or development costs, and you still need to support stuff… It’s more of a question what market niche they are aiming for. Is it “audiophiles” looking for a shiny conversation piece or HiFI in the original meaning of high quality audio reproduction?
That was 10 years ago.
It works perfectly fine for far (or mid) field, if you take your measurements right. And a calibrated mic is what… $70? Of course for people who do not want to mess with not exactly novice-friendly software like REW, there’s Acourate, Focus Fidelity, hell, even HouseCurve that can generate convolution filters about as easy as Dirac or RoomPerfect do (the only drawback with them is that since the target device does not support DRC measurements by itself, you need to fiddle with connecting computer output to it). Implementing the processing part on the device would be rather trivial.
I would love to hear the BACCH system but I can’t imagine the two channel version can be as immersive as a multichannel setup.
BACCH is supposed to apply head-related transfer functions to the audio and tracks your head movements, so it might be immersive in some sense but it’s really trying to add something to the recording that isn’t really there. IMHO it’s more of a novelty item.
Loved my Rose 520B, mostly for the SQ. I finally took the switch and bought an EVERsolo T8 streamer only with a Denafrips Pontus 15th DAC…connected with I2S DH Labs Silver cable. The difference became readily apparent after 200 hrs, break-in. Not bashing Rose, just realising how that would be over double the price I invested. The 520B will be hitting the used market after Thanksgiving week end. Amazing how far affordable digital front ends have become. T8’s features are plentiful and will pretty much leave me well into the future…I’m not looking back nor looking at the Rose streamer and DAC seperates at double the price of the T8 and Pontus