IOW, it sounds exactly the same as any other, but you really want to hear the difference, so there’s a lot of audiophile words that mean nothing, but no indication of any real difference (because there isn’t any).
RME is a very good DAC. Should we believe that you have done a blind, level-matched test, or maybe we should believe RME who do not see any difference between the AKM and ESS versions
Absolutely. One absolutely can prefer tube amps, more distortion, speakers painted pink, or upsampling everything to DSD1024. De gustibus non disputandum and all that. It’s when you claim, with certainty, that there is some objective physical difference between things that can not be different based on every law of physics used to design them in the first place, and which have never been heard by anyone under proper test conditions that a line needs to be drawn.
You do realize that Russell was talking about people like audiophiles – willfully ignorant about about scientific facts but absolutely sure that their subjective opinions carry weight.
I personally have never been so full of doubt, and yet I am reminded daily of so many others, so “cocksure” of themselves.
Sorry, not all DACs or DAC chips sound the same Boris. I thought the same until I tried them myself. The differences can be subtle, but they exist. For me, the Holo May is my end game until I hear something better. By then, I may not hear much about 8kHz
Sorry, but I have to ask again. Did you do a blind test after level-matching DAC output or not? If yes, great, we should present it to the AES and see Amir hang himself on his Klippel rig. Something tells me though that no, you did not, you just “listened” to them, and this is about as valuable, as far as objective data goes, as Darko singing hosannas about speaker cable from his pimps at AQ.
For someone in his 20’s an R2R DAC, which tend to have a dip in upper frequencies, unlike more accurate delta-sigma designs, there might be some minuscule difference in the upper range. I still hear to somewhere around 14KHz at sane volumes, and still there is no difference between AKM and ESS. Or between Rose, McIntosh, and Mark Levinson implementation (don’t have anywhere nearby to listen to Topping or Holo).
As an engineer you should know the difference between anecdotes and data. And the importance of gathering the data correctly.
Boris - I am truly sorry you can’t hear the difference between DACs. I too, have friends that can’t tell a Pinot from a Zinfandel. It really does make this hobby more fun when you can find source equipment that appeals to your taste.
So, no tests were ever performed, you just stared at the price tag of a DAC and felt warms and fuzzies.
You do realize that not hearing things that aren’t there is far less troubling than hearing them, do you? It’s usually called “hallucinating.”
When there actually are differences (i.e. a PowerNODE with a SINAD of 76, which is even worse than the 160) you can hear them, although even those are subtle enough. Being able to hear differences between a 150 and an RME though… sorry, but either you are that infamous Bat Boy that National Inquirer was writing about, or you are trying to deceive yourself (which is your prerogative) and us in the process, which is not.
Boris - You and I have been through this before… but let me indulge you once again.
I personally have saved 393 unique measurement files in REW each with many samples. So YES, I have performed tests. Thousands of times. Some might say I have testing OCD.
My dedicated blind tester AKA “wife”, who has better hearing than my own, is sick of my requests to help A/B equipment. I have implemented source switchers to flip between preamps, and use my preamp to quickly switch and validate what I hear between sources.
I have watched every review and even checked Amir’s Audio Measurement Review website prior to every purchase/demo.
I have purchased or demoed dozens of DACs some 5X more in $$ than my Holo May. Which according to GoldenSound and ASR has the best SINAD score re: Objective test performance.
Please stop trolling, no need to stoop to personal attacks. I’m happy with my DAC, and might be selling my RS130 not because it isn’t great but because I am getting better performance from HQPlayer upsampling from my personally built Intel NUC HQNAA Endpoint running AudioLinux and my self-built roon core. Both device that cost me a fraction of the cost of the 130.
RE: Amir - I am sorry but someone that listens to speakers in mono at crazy volumes is not someone I want telling me that a SINAD score is what determines how good a product is. I have personally, using my own scientific method proven his conclusions false.
For example:
Tubes add distorition yet I prefer how they sound.
Fiber drops my noise floor.
Sources and cables make small differences in soundstage.
All of these are minor compared to speaker placement, room dimensions, and room treatments.
This forum along with the others where you like to troll for audiphools would be a lot better if you kept your posts on topic and free of personal attacks.
Here Here. SINAD in the 2025 is just about the silliest way to rank DACs. Sure see if one is poorly built, but still the SINAD in these things no-a-days is so small its not going to influence the sound this way or that way.
Example a friend swapped his Filter in his Pre based upon ASR measurements saying this one is much better. He could not stand it and went back to the default one supplied by manufacturer. He is very happy. Amir did not like the roll off he saw. Sometimes manufacturers know what they are doing.
I agree about SINAD. But I do not understand why you use so bad DAC which has so bad upsampling that you have to use one from HQPlayer. Upsampling is no brainer, every sigma delta or hybrid DAC has one by design and it is very simple thing.
I didn’t believe or understand this either, but as with all things things in HiFi when you read/see it enough times you try it for yourself and decide. The Holo May DAC upsampling can not compete with a dedicated gaming PC doing the processing of taps.
Yeah I would have to agree with HMANAZ that the Holo May upsampling or not is a great DAC. Not sure what is trying to be proved here.
Great read on the MScalar and HQPlayer. One of these days I have to try HQPlayer out. The MKII Dac from PSAudio that I have converts everything to DSD internally and does a great job. I have to see if it would effect that at all.
And of course you have them level-matched. And your wife, being sick of this nonsense isn’t doing a Clever Hans on you.
Sorry, still not seeing any indication that you have done any kind of a proper ABX on them, regardless of how many gigs of some unspecified test files you have.
Nobody has an issue with that. Only with your claims that you hear the difference. Something that not a single person was able to do, even with serious prize money at stake, under controlled circumstances.
I’ve been saying that since the beginning. Anyone knowing how digital audio works could have told you that, too. RS130 does not do anything that an RPi or a $200 mini PC would not do better. For $500 you could run some serious processing on it and have something significantly better. And what 130 does, any other RS-series devices does just as well, for less money and with more features.
Ah, sure, what do people who have spent their lives studying acoustics know. They should throw away their stupid anechoic chambers and Klippel rigs. Henry has much better science for them! Just plop two speakers in a room, and measure them together, interference be damned! And compression is not a thing, not at all!
As all audiophiles, you are again conflating your personal preference with actual differences.
Tubes do add distortion. Some people like it. Nobody has an issue with that. It’s an issue of taste.
And here you are making a statement of fact. This can be measured. Unless you are running a manufacturing plant in house, or have enough radiation to glow in the dark, no, fiber does not lower the noise floor in any audible way. This is something measurable.
And this is why no cable manufacturer had ever agreed to subject their cables to independent blind testing. Not even for Randi’s million dollars.
Now, this is absolutely true.
Well, this is a topic. You are making claims that have been disproven every time anyone had tried to test them in a controlled manner. We have actual records of that. All you have is “trust me, bro, I know better than professional engineers and acousticians!” Sorry, but that’s just what Russell warned about.
Can we agree that there are personal preferences and impressions, and then there are hard measurable facts. Former have value only to the one experiencing them. Latter are universally applicable.
Oh, and that replacing SFPs, cables, and digital-only streamers is absolutely pointless until you have worked out room acoustics and taken care of it.
Until you come to some fancy expensive DAC that has SINAD bad enough to be audible…
That’s exactly the kind of FUD Jussi likes to sell…
Yeah, this is very audiophile-level lack of self-awareness. Do you also argue with people claiming the obviously ridiculous fact that the Earth is round? How dare they be so sure?!
Not saying measurements are wrong just don’t make your pick solely on that. Which ASR does. Stupid
I have been trying to be cordial on this forum as I am new but man double to stir the pot (being nice when saying that). Opinionated is more like it. A $500 streamer can sound nice but please I have owned many. It’s not as nice or feature rich as others. Missing much.
And yes I tried Sonore and boot optical does magic on a good system for streaming. Can be done for very low cost too. Digital processing, not the signal (1’s and 0’s) is very sensitive to noise. Clocks processors etc. all of them. Sorry you cannot hear the difference between that and DACs but maybe it’s not everyone else it’s you?
By the way if they don’t mean anything do you even own a rose? Why are you here? Not sure why you post so much negativity in what for the most part seems a good place to learn about the rose products. This is not an audio forum. Go back to ASR please for the sake of the rest of trying to enjoy the hobby.
Exactly, It is features, looks, fit and finish. Just nothing to do with sound quality.
Ah, yes, there’s a thread in Roon forums about LPS’s. Sonore guy swore left and right that of course they make a difference, and he has data, trust me, to prove it, and he will even show it, after redacting anything useful out of it, and… crickets.He did admit that he sells a vry expensive USB cable because some people do not want to use a “printer cable” in their systems, and that’s the only thing about it – it costs more.
This makes no sense at all.
Actually, it’s you. You can’t hear that difference either. Nor him. Nor her. If someone would, there would be a test result confirming it (not to mention a whole bunch of Nobel prizes for completely upending our understanding of physics). But somehow, when it comes to a controlled blind test, even with lots of prize money at stake, either the differences, or the golden-eared audiophiles hearing them, magically disappear.
I’m sorry that you are gullible enough to hear things that aren’t there.
I got two. Because I like the look and features.
I’m a paying customer, unlike some people making lots of noise here and still believing that you can plug I2S output into HDMI input.
Yes. Learn bout realities of Rose products, not fairy tales from people hearing differences between brands of fiber.
And here I was, thinking that Rose makes audio equipment used for reproducing audio signals… If you think that Rose makes some home decoration jewelry you’d use to attract females, that’s just pathetic, at least pick a Taiko or something actually expensive.
I could tell you exactly where you can put your advice, but I am in a good mood today so I will just suggest that you crawl back to the kindergarten to learn something about cause and effect relationships, and leave grown up conversations to grown ups.
I am glad you replied like you did, sort of shows the constant manner in which you behave on this forum. ASR DOES pick DACs solely on noise. “Topping does it again…” just goes on and on over there.
We are not talking about cables and LPS’s here, so stop trying to change the subject to prove your point. I did say “It’s not as nice” in there. Sorry for not being specific. IT DOES NOT SOUND AS GOOD… There.
And yes optical makes a big difference. Please prove it does not. HINT: it has nothing to do with 1’s and 0’s. Do you own research (outside of ASR please). Hans and he has numerous links to others that actually do testing other than noise with perfect feed of 1k signal. I am not doing your homework. We all know your feelings here on this, unless you want to actually open your mind up to other than ethernet does correction then stay out of it please for the rest of us.
And there it is the go to statement by the measurement zealots, the double bind test that nobody has ever seem to be able to do properly. And what nobel prize winners did what test you talking about?
surprised the way you trash everything they do. And yes this ROSE forum talks about Rose’s audio equipment and how to best use it. You seem to want to take it down at every turn. I only joined a month ago and just about EVERY thread has your opinionated bashing in it. Its exaggerated since the user community is so small unlike AVS or other forums. If you tried this on other smaller forums, I could guarantee you would be tossed, and not for your ideas, but for you attitude. Open ideas are always fun to read and chat, but you do not chat, you insult and bash. Like I said I tried to stay out of the mess but just could not stand it any more.
I would love to leave it to the grown ups, but you keep posting. I’m done dealing with the local Rose troll. Im sure you will keep the bashing and nah saying and insulting going, but I just had to have my input as I am tired of picking through your weeds to find the content that is actually interesting to read.
ASR has a quick and easy rating by SINAD. As an indicator of engineering quality. They are quite clear that above a certain threshold you should NOT use it as the selection criteria for sonic differences.
DBT or it did not happen.
For moving high-speed data over miles of cable, sure.
Proving the negative, sweet.
That’s kinda my specialty. I know how this stuff works. What you said is BS.
Hans is a typical audio whore, too ugly for OnlyFans, but still wanting to be paid for doing no more work than spreading his legs. Also, appeal to “authority” is a fallacy.
Of course, because what you are pimping here not only is not provable, but can be (and has been) disproven easily.
Somebody with intelligence of a hans or a darko (and a penchant for prostitution) may not be able. For anyone else, with IQ in upper double digits, it is trivial. And has been done thousands of times. Alas, no differences you want to peddle have been ever heard.
Maybe should look at the history then, and how many times I have been accused of being a paid Rose employee… But if they release something like 130, yeah, I will give a piece of mind about doing useless things.
If you are interested in only reading about how SFP modules sound different, there’s a “mute” button you can click and wallow in the mud with other low-iq clowns who believe in that stuff.
Typical response from you, insults with no meat. You just keep proving my point. You love to poke with zero substance other than your opinion which if someone does not agree start tossing insults. Hence Troll.
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge is limited. 