Issue with MQA decoder on RS520

[bdj964]

When I use Roon to listen to MQA I never see the MQA logo on the display.
I also get a clicking sound on several MQA tracks if I set the device MQA Capabilities to decoder or decoder and renderer. The clicking stops if I set it to renderer only, but it still doesn’t indicate MQA, instead it indicates ofs.

The MQA encoded song I am using is from Tidal https://i.imgur.com/brzMRjH.png

Speak to Me [From “Voice from the Stone” Original Motion Picture Soundtrack] by Amy Lee

Here are the set ups and results.

Scenario 1:
Roon Device Setup
MQA Capabilities: Decoder and renderer
Enable MQA core decoder: Yes
Display indicates: (roon ready) pcm 24bits 44.1KHz 2 ch
Clicking during playback

Scenario 2:
Roon Device Setup
MQA Capabilities: No MQA support
Enable MQA core decoder: Yes
Display indicates: (roon ready) pcm 24bit 88.2KHz 2ch
Playback is fine

Scenario 3:
Roon Device Setup
MQA Capabilities: Decoder only
Enable MQA core decoder: Yes
Display indicates: (roon ready) pcm 24bits 44.1KHz 2 ch
Clicking during playback

Scenario 4:
Roon Device Setup
MQA Capabilities: Renderer only
Enable MQA core decoder: Yes
Display indicates: (roon ready) pcm 24bits 88.2KHz 2 ch, ofs (magenta dot) 44.1 kHz
Playback is fine

Scenario 5:
Roon Device Setup
MQA Capabilities: Decoder
Enable MQA core decoder: No
Display indicates: (roon ready) pcm 24bits 44.1KHz 2 ch
Clicking during playback

In all cases where there is clicking, the display indicates (roon ready) pcm 24bits 88.2KHz 2 ch, ofs (purple dot) 44.1 kHz momentarily before switching to the value indicated above.

I also have the album “Inside the Moment” by Camille Thurman which I ripped to disk using EAC. This is an MQA recording. It plays fine when using the Rose Music (not Roon) and the display indicates (SSD HDD) flac 16bits 44.1kHz 2ch (wavy equal) 614kbps, MQA (blue dot) 176.4kHz. When I play it through Roon it has clicking during playback identical to the scenarios above except the display indicates the 176.4kHz.

MQA works fine if I use Tidal
RS520 with Rose OS: 4.6.06

[bdj964]

@ROSEHAN Any ideas how to resolve this issue?

@bdj964

When I use Roon to listen to MQA I never see the MQA logo on the display.
I also get a clicking sound on several MQA tracks if I set the device MQA Capabilities to decoder or decoder and renderer. The clicking stops if I set it to renderer only, but it still doesn’t indicate MQA, instead it indicates ofs.

[BorisM]

Are you using any DSP in Roon?

[bdj964]

Yes there is DSP for volume which is part of the default setup (see below). This setup gives the clicking. I tried with Fixed Volume same issue and DSP is still in the signal path.
My signal path is:

My setup for the RS520:

[BorisM]

If you are applying any DSP processing in Roon (or otherwise) the signal is no longer “Master Quality Authenticated”, as it is not an original signal (and has been decoded by Roon anyway). But since Roon is preserves original MQA data (such as it is) device shows that it is playing Original Frequency Spectrum, so you are getting full MQA decoding.

I don’t think I’ve tried playing any MQA tracks from Roon to my 520, but I would say that since you have it configured to use device volume, there’s no need to apply DSP volume on top of that, Roon will adjust 520’s volume on the output side, rather than on the digital input.

[bdj964]

Thanks for the quick follow up. There is no option on my device setup to enable DSP volume, it is either Fixed or Device. I know if I play it thru a DAC, my DAC will only read MQA audio if the RS520 is at max volume, which led me to the root cause and a solution.

I had software volume enabled on RS520 output, since I thought I needed it when I was using it with a DAC and a second amp. I forgot all about the warnings for the software volume and MQA (stating MQA wasn’t supported except at max volume.) I turned off software volume and now all my MQA titles play and display properly when I am using Roon with it set as decoder and renderer. There is no longer a DSP item in my signal path.

I think it is still odd that Tidal and direct play from SSD worked fine with MQA and the problem was only with Roon.

@ROSEHAN If there is anything else you want me to try please let me know. I’m willing to help out if you decide to fix this issue.

[BorisM]

Wait… are you feeding an external DAC from 520? (Kind of defeats ther point of using an integrated streamer, but…) In that case, you would do what Rose says, and pass the digital signal unaltered, and either use whatever volume controls the external DAC has, or adjust the volume in Roon, and live with OFS instead of MQA display. It doesn’t really mean anything other than that the signal has been manipulated prior to full MQA processing.

That’s not what your signal path shows though, it shows that you are playing directly from Rose amplifier output. In which case your signal path should look like this:

(ignore that this happens to be DSD)

In this case, adjusting volume in Roon does exact same thing as pushing volume buttons on 520 itself, with no effect on the signal path which stays bit-perfect.

You may want to check that you have Software Volume turned off in Rose’s output settings.

You get MQA display when playing directly from Tidal or a file on disk, because in this case Rose gets the original bits instead of Roon performing the first unfold and sending that to it.

If OFS really bugs you, you can turn MQA Core Decoder off in Roon and send the same bits to Rose, it can both decode and render by itself. You lose ability to apply DSP in Roon and preserver MQA signaling that way but you aren’t doing any right now anyway.

[bdj964]

No I’m using it as an integrated streamer. That was just one topology I was playing with at one time.

[BorisM]

And in this case the whole “max volume” thing does not apply at all, it’s only regarding digital output. Everything seems to be working exactly as it should, but you probably want to check that there’s no s/w volume activated in the 520.

[bdj964]

Thanks. I disabled s/w volume and the issue is now gone. It is odd that it was only causing issues with MQA on Roon playback and working fine with Tidal and direct SSD playback. I guess that is a problem for the developers to put in their backlog.

[BorisM]

You’re welcome!

But… there is no problem. Neither Tidal nor playback directly from file perform any manipulation of data. If it was MQA authenticated (whatever’s the value of that) it stays authenticated, and Rose displays it as such. Roon can perform the authentication and first unfold , so basically your “MQA” dot is now here:
and the Rose gets signal that still has all of MQA extra data (“OFS”) but isn’t authenticated.

Why there is any clicking is another question, but this seems to be the MQA renderer issue that occurs on other devices as well. Honestly, given that MQA (the company) is very much pining for the fjords and Tidal is replacing, wherever possible, MQA’d files with proper high-resolution tracks, I would not worry about it at all. For the MQA tracks you want to play now, I’d use the scenario #4 above which would give you the optimal output from any MQA file you encounter.