Is it really correct that Rose OS runs on Android 7?
Is there any schedule to update it to 11+?
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Yes it does, even my brand new RS130 runs same old android version but according to the developers it can do no harm because it’s only used to run the integrated apps
And what would be the point of updating to a more resource-intensive version for a device that only runs custom software?
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Maybe quboz connect. Apple Music lossless.
Maybe Whatever the new Chinese fellas can do.
Whenever Qobuz actually comes out with a Connect of their own.
Due to unusualk screen size and custom hardware/sound subsystem, AFAIK Rose runs custom apps, not the stuff from the Play Store. So moving to a different version of the custom OS build would also require rewriting all of those.
Certainly possible, but unless there are some APIs in newer Android that are required to implement some theoretical future Qobuz Connect, what would the advantage be?
At the end of the day the APIs are way too old on android 7.
Nothing custom about apps from streaming services. They still require sdk and apis. You cant move forward if you’re stuck in the past.
Qobuz requires 6.0+; Tidal requires 7.0+; Apple Music requires 6.0+. There’s nothing in the OS version Rose uses currently that would require an immediate update.
Apple Music lossless. I’m sure people would be wanting that. Which wasn’t available to android users when it was released by Apple.
Most likely not happening unless Apple releases it for Android, and allows third-party manufacturers to modify it (phone/tablet version would look really weird on Rose display). Or allows third-party API access. Most likely not happening no matter what version of Android Rose puts in it. Even Roon can’t get them to play along.
Don’t believe the koolaid
It’s android. You can install it in those rear vision mirror displays.
All sorts of weird screen sizes and still operates just fine.
I’m pretty sure we don’t run hacked versions of legitimate apps on our streamers.
Yeah sure. Apple Music for android 7 doesn’t support lose less. So it’s apples problem? Not really
Apple music for android 11 supports lossless , so why is it apples problem to fix on an outdated no longer supported OS
Always good to see a professional expert!
And it will work appropriately. Have you tried running Qobuz on one?
Are you saying we are running Play Store versions of them? As far as I can see, we are not. Versions are different, features are different, and the integration with the rest of the system is something “legitimate” apps do not have.
That’s not what Apple says, and Android 7 supports lossless audio just fine, in custom versions (and you need a custom build in 11 for proper high resolution support as well).
While there are devices that run straight phone/tablet versions of Android, and can use Store apps, I think I’ll rather trust e.g. Tidal that confirmed that streamers (including all the big name Android-based ones) will not get Max until Tidal releases updated APIs for third-party vendors. Because, yeah, Tidal (Qobuz, etc.) apps on streamers are not store versions but custom software developed by the device manufacturer based on service’s APIs and/or SDKs. Or, as with Airplay support, something reverse-engineered by the community.
I’m just giving you my view.
I didn’t spend a small fortune on a 150b to be satisifed with what’s on the horizon from rose that an ever solo a6 seems to do everything rose hifi states is not possible.
A bit strange really.
I also find it hard to believe that Apple would let anyone customise their app.
Unless we are just using the web version of Apple Music?
Do you have any suggestions as to how HiFi Rose could be encouraged to materially upgrade their software?
One of the problems of attaching specialized software to someone else’s operating system is that you may have to make very substantial changes to all of your specialized applications to be compatible with the current operating system version. For Eversolo this isn’t a problem because they started with the current version of Android. For HiFi Rose I suspect the answer is not that they can’t upgrade but that they could upgrade to the current Android Operating System -and then get all of the advantages that the upgrade would offer but that it would be too expensive in programming time to ensure that all of their existing applications would still function properly.Think of all of the messages we have seen on our computers…“This program no longer operates on Version XX of this software”.
I for one, would be willing to pay a subscription price to keep the programs current even though the initial purchase price is very high. It probably is an economically unsupportable model to indefinitely upgrade your user base for free without a continuously high sales volume. I sympathise with HiFi Rose but it’s a problem that must be solved otherwise the products will fall behind.
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Yeah, I figured that you are not a software engineer.
They wouldn’t. They provide MusicKit SDK for Android. Qobuz, Tidal etx. as well. Device manufacturers use them to build device-specific apps that integrate (functionally and visually) with their devices. Unless the service itself becomes inaccessible through an old SDK and the new SDK requires a higher version of Android (highly unlikely for something that only requires making authenticated REST calls to get metadata, and stream some bits from a server… maybe if they decided to go to a different compression format that somehow can only be decoded on a newer OS version, but that’s somewhat unlikely) moving to a newer Android on a device like Rose gets you absolutely nothing.
Eversolo lets you side-load third party APKs of random programs, which is all neat and cool. I’d be curious to see what their support does once you load something that bricks the unit.
To summarize. Rose isn’t running apps straight from the Play Store. There isn’t anything related to music playback in Android 13 (II think that’s the latest) that would provide any improvements in Rose’s functionality or quality of audio playback. Upgrading the underlying OS, at least for now, would be just a colossal waste of time and effort by Rose’s software department, effort they should much rather spend on fixing existing issues.
Does HiFi Rose access the third party music databases through a RESTful.api?
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Well. Thanks for that. Makes a lot more sense now.
Most likely. That’s what Apple Music et al expose for third-party integration. Most likely uses it for getting CD metadata when ripping as well.
You’re welcome.
While it might seem that upgrading the Android version is a low-effort process with some big benefits if you look at it as a user who just installs a new version on their phone when it becomes available, in reality it is much more complicated.
All the custom parts of the Rose would need to be redone (Rose , like other manufacturers of Android-based streamers had to rewrite the audio portion of the OS to allow anything better than 24/48 to be processed bit-perfectly), all the custom screens (that is all the screens, since Rose does not use stock Android settings pages or apps), and all the built-in apps would need to be at the very least validated to still work. They might work as-is. Or not. Audio portion is quite likely to require attention. Then you need to test everything, and redo things that broke.
And what would the benefit be? You can check the official list of changes at Android 14 features and changes list | Android Developers (substitute other versions for 14, although for versions prior to 11 you need to click on “All Android Releases” and browse from there). Yes, there are changes. Some performance improvements are nice to have, but Rose performs adequately for what it does already (not talking about e.g. speed of music scanning; the problem there is in bad algorithms, newer Android would not help much). The rest are things like cameras improvements, notifications changes, new areas in settings, media playback control in the notifications shade, better security controls, etc. etc. – all the great things to have on your phone, but quite useless for a device that uses a completely custom UI, does not have a camera, does not play games, has no cellular modem, and is really adapted to a single use case – playing music.
If/when Rose releases a new device, with some additional functionality and beefier hardware, sure, might as well go for a more current OS version. For now though 7 is perfectly fine.
BorisM,
I agree that it would be a big software coding job to switch to the current (and future) Android versions. Not really necessary as you point out as most of Android’s apps aren’t used by HiFi Rose’s music applications and because RESTful is stateless and thus separates the Rose Client and the music service Server. I would argue that over a longer time period, it may become necessary to upgrade the Android version. I could be wrong for all the reasons you pointed out.
However, I think we would agree that while I think the Rose hardware is excellent, the software is only about 90% finished. It’s stable and runs with excellent graphics and sound quality but the decision tree organization is not as intuitive as it should be (bad algorithms?). It suffers from lack of consistent, logical organization and usability among and within the various applications.
How do you think we could encourage Rose to finish the software in a reasonable time period?
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Not sure if the stateless nature of REST is really important here.
Eventually, it might be needed to upgrade the OS, but the only reason I could think of would be if the SDKs for servces Rose uses start requiring newer OS, and old SDKs stop working or lose features. Which is possible, if e.g. they switch to a different encryption/authentication protocol that’s only supported by the newer OS, but this is really highly unlikely because it will break a lot of devices that might be running plain Linux (e.g. Blusound) or QNX or something completely custom. Not something I would really worry about for the next few years at least.
For now, IMO, best approach is reporting real issues and asking for realistic new features, remembering the storage is not infinite, there are only so many apps one could fit into it. IMO, having Idagio would be neat. Initially I would just try to make sure that all the existing functionality works flawlessly. While a lot of things could and should be caught by internal testing, in reality bugs still sneak in and re only found in real world usage.
BorisM,
Idagio is probably on their list as I understand the owner of Citech is a classical music fan.
There are more and more streaming applications out there like Idagio. This is one reason I would like to see more streaming portals for the RS130. It seems to me that HiFi Rose’s software was designed for a time when most music was on CD’s. Hence its emphasis on ripping CD’s and local storage. Now the CD business is almost gone and online bit perfect/ high res streaming is the new business model. Look at what happened to OPPO. They primarily made great CD products and now their CD business is gone. That focus by HiFi Rose must also change away from CD’s.
The RS130 is a perfect example of a purpose built transport/streamer. The software just has to catch up.
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