Rs250a - analog setup, help please

#1

Dear Friends, I write from Buenos Aires, Argentina.

I just bought a Hifi Rose RS250A and I have a PrimaLuna EVO 300 tube amplifier and Monitor Audio Silver G7 Columns.

I play my music using a Western Digital 4 tera USB external hard drive formatted in NTFS; In my case I am not interested in connecting to the internet to play music. My files are all of high and extreme quality in the following formats: WAV - Flac - APE - DSF - DFF (24 bits - 1 Bit for DSD and DFF).

I need your help to configure in the best and right way the analog output
from the RS250A to the PrimaLuna EVO 300, I understand that I must configure it in FIXED mode. The goal is to obtain the best possible audio quality and volume

Please can you help me and tell me how I should do it?
Can you send me screenshots, or some step by step.

I appreciate your help, thank you !

José.

#2

Hello,

There are some features that you can set. Other settings are all

1. Fixed output (= Pre-out level settings)
The value of fixed output should be configured based on input sensitivity of PrimaLuna EVO 300.
Seems like EVO 300’s input sensitivity is 415mV, so pre-out level settings in ROSE should be at least 415mV. It doesn’t matter if you set this higher than 415mV, unless your amplifier do not make clipping noise.

2. DAC filters
Most recommended DAC filters are set by default, but if you’d like to try something different, feel free to swap them out. Check this URL for DAC filter details.

3. Equalizer
You can set parametric equalizer with RS250A.
RS250A > Settings > Audio Settings > Equalizer

Best Regards,

#5

Roseloa, thank you very much for your response.

I understand what you’re saying, I can’t find is where to change those settings.
Please tell me if I am correct with the route to find the setting and configure.

1.- From the main panel, SETTINGS (THE WHEEL ICON).
2.- In Out Settings, ANALOG OUT R and ANALOG OUT L, press the Whell Icon.
3.- Pre-out Level setting ? (SPANISH AJUSTE DEL NIVEL DE SALIDA PREVIA ?)
SET ON choose 500mV.

I ask:
What happens, if I configure it at 200mv or 300mv, can I damage PrimaLuna or Rs250?

I share an image so you can see the data of my RS250A.

02 - info
02 - info1149×323 96.5 KB

Very grateful in advance for your help and goodwill.
José.

#6

It is an extra feature you don’t normally have. None of the settings will do damage. You can use the 500.

Primaluna amplifiers are easy to use and don’t demand a lot of special settings. On other tube amplifiers sometimes the input tubes have a lot of gain, or just enough to drive the output tubes.

I had a single ended tube amp with only 1 6n3 input tube and 1 EL34 output tube per channel. It needed much more input to let the amplifier reach its full 10W output. My old Audio Note Oto only needed a little for the ECC82 and ECC83 to drive the EL84 output tubes also to 10W.

So why is that? Preference and choice of the engineer. Engineering is all about making the best compromise. And try to keep within standards to make it easier for the consumer to use any brand. My old Audio Note was designed when vinyl was standard, and that usually had a lower output than the later cd-players. I never turned the volume past 9 o’ clock. If I turned it past 12 it would start to distort and run out of power. It sounded dynamic but not that clean. That’s because of that extra tube (plus extra coupling capacitor).

With the later amp I had to turn the volume all the way up to 3 o’ clock and it just ran out without distortion. It sounded much more open and refined but just a little less dynamic.

The more components you use and the harder you drive them you will lose fidelity. So the engineers choice is how hard can you drive each bit. And that’s why the Rose engineer gave you the choice for a good match. And if you have more sources you can match the input levels so you don’t need to adjust volume going from cd to streamer to vinyl.

Just try it out and listen. If you think it sounds weak try a higher setting, if it starts to distort (overmodulate) use a lower setting.

#7

Jeep.

Thank you for your response and participation, it is a pleasure to read you.

You know what you are talking about, which for me is very important;
Although I like to have the best equipment I can afford, to enjoy the best
possible sound, my knowledge is very limited.

At the moment, I use the RS250A with its factory settings and configurations.
and I can say that with the PrimaLuna Evo 300, the combination is spectacular.

I take this opportunity to tell you that I put in the EVO 300, I use Gold Lion KT power tubes and that the
pre tubes, are Brimar CV4003 - 12AU7.

I share an image.

Tubos
Tubos1024×768 125 KB

Thank you in advance for your help, I really appreciate it.
As soon as I make the modifications, I’ll tell you if there really are sound differences.

Greetings from Argentina - Buenos Aires.

José.

#8

De nada.

I think you have a very nice setup. It is simple and good. This type of amplifier (4 kt88) has a very powerful sound, warm and full. But also brash and bold. Like live music in a bar. A bit gritty and realistic.

Of course tuberolling is a thing. I know, I have quite a few tubes. But don’t overdo it. Tubes for a kt88 pp can get costly and they wear quite fast. There are no old stock tubes left at any sensible price. But new ones are coming out. The ones you have seem pretty good to me.
Here’s a little secret for you, for the future: inside the amp there are coupling caps that do even more for the sound than the tubes. Something to dig into when you feel up to it.

For now I would advise just to play with it and get to know the sound. There are many things on the Rose to play with. But changing settings on the dac part is much harder to discern than changing tubes. You have to listen for different things. Most noticable are loud passages on clear midtones like a piano loop or a soprano. If that sounds undistorted you are doing good. The other thing is spatial sound. Soundstage width, depth and size of instruments (has to do with timing, ie phase).

You just have to take your time and try. Not everything is obvious right away. Sometimes it takes days or weeks to decide if you like something or not.

PS
Engineers are always very good at showing what you need to do. But they never explain why. This is some sort of occupational deformation. Like " v=i . r isn’t that obvious?" or an attitude like “I can try to explain but you won’t understand”. The same goes for fora where engineers and amateurs gather. It’s very hard to get behind the reason things are done. Very frustrating at times.

1 Like
#9

Hello,

Fixed output
RS250A > In/Out Settings > small wheel button on RCA output > Pre-out level settings > Apply

DAC filters
RS250A > In/Out Settings > small wheel button on RCA output > FIR interpolation phase Filter

Equalizer
RS250A > Settings > Audio Settings > Equalizer

About Pre-out level settings, 425mV that I’ve mentioned is the minimum value for your amplifier to output maximum output. You can set lower value, but you will not be able to have maximum output from amplifier. (It won’t damage your amplifier at all)

You can set higher value in ROSE streamer and lower volume in your amplifier. Actually, what I recommend is to set higher pre-out level settings in ROSE and lower volume in your amplifier. Set one by one and find the value that doesn’t make clipping noise.

Best Regards,

#10

Dear Friends Jeep and Roseloa.

I am very grateful for your help and it is a pleasure to be able to count on your knowledge, which is a luxury for me!

I want to tell you that I have configured the Rose RS250 as seen in the following image and I am experiencing a reduction significant volume in relation to how it was originally configured; In any case, I understand that from a technical point of view it is what is appropriate to do.

SETUP500
SETUP5001600×1200 205 KB

Regarding the filters, I am using the one configured at the factory and depending on the artist I listen to,
The mids are lost a lot, and I am left with extremes of treble and bass, but without rich and warm mids.

This is the one I have set at the moment, Minimum Phase Fast-Roll-Off filter.

Once again, I reiterate my gratitude to you.
Greetings from Buenos Aires, Argentina.

José.

P.S:

Before switching to the Rose RS250, I was using Marantz NA6006; I made the change because it does not recognize 4-tera hard drives in NTFS format, but I have to say that the sound of my old NA6006 is more complete.

#11

The filters hardly make any difference in sound. Perhaps in the fine details in a fantastic system, but not I a way that makes your music sound completely different and certainly not like you describe with too much bass or treble. Are you sure you haven’t messed with the EQ settings?
Also, the output volume doesn’t really matter. I keep it at 2000mv, even though for my amp it should be around 500mv. If I set it that low, I need to crank up my amp way too high, almost to 80 percent. Much higher than for other sources.

#12

Hans.

It is a pleasure to greet you and thank you for your contribution.

My rule is to listen to the music, as it came out of the recording studio and the mastering process,
why, I’m going to destroy the work of people like Bernie Grundman or Alan Parsons, using an equalizer.

Returning to the topic of outputs and volumes, I am not entirely satisfied with configuring a fixed output. Seems more interesting to me to leave everything in the hands of the RS250A and use all by default.

Rose Rs250A, is a great feature packed product and I am not complaining about it; I just say and I am
finding that the warmth and sound quality of my old Marantz NA6006 is much better, but it doesn’t have the features and condiments of the RS250A and in fact, I am seriously thinking about doing an update of the Rose RS250A, taking into account that I bought it
very few days ago.

Thank you all for your great help and collaboration in helping me configure my setup.
Greetings from Buenos Aires, Argentina.

José.

#13

Hi José,

I wasn’t suggesting that you should use the equalizer, I was just saying that somehow you might have turned it on accidentally. I don’t think anyone here is complaining about excessive bass and treble levels from their RS250, so I think you might have turned something on or off by mistake. Your RS250 should give you a more than excellent sound.

#14

I had to look op the Marantz NA6006, and knowing Marantz and looking at the specs I would sooner suspect the Marantz to have a certain ‘tuning’ of the sound than Rose. The dac chip they use is the same brand but a much cheaper budget model intended for mobile phones etc. No disrespect for Marantz but they are not the same company they once were and the NA6006 is made to target a low price point. This usually means less attention on the dac part. Often people already have a seperate dac and just want a cheap streamer.

In the Rose on the other hand the sound quality of the built in dac is really to a high standard. I already have a Denafrips r2r dac that I really like (so would you, but I didn’t want to bring it up). In all honesty, the internal dac of the Rose RS250 (not A) is already really good and I could live with it and not miss it.

It always takes a while to get used to a new component. But the Rose takes even longer to learn it’s features and what you like best. My advice is to take your time and relax. You definitely have a great sounding streamer that has lots of features and is made with a lot of attention to detail.

PS: if you ever decide on an upgrade (or like me rather invest in audio than put it in the bank at 138% inflation) you should think of a dac at least the same price as the rs250A.

PS: good luck on the coming elections. Especially for Argentina these are weird times.

PS2: The rs250 should sound neutral with a wide soundstage with great detail and seperation.
I personally always go for minimal phase and slow rolloff. This gets the best timing/phase characteristic and the best soundstage. Closer to what R2R does.

#15

Hello Jeep!

Marantz NA6006, in my ears it does not sound as harsh as RS250A (I am not saying that RS250 is a bad product, it is excellent) R2R, they are big words and other prices when buying, especially if we talk about Denafrips, which are fantastic at what they do.

When I talk about making an update, I mean HiFi Rose RS150B.

I have tried setting with Minimum Phase Slow Roll-off filter; I didn’t like it, everything sounded like tin or metal to me
 those are tastes.

And as I mentioned before, I’m not saying that RS250A is a bad product, quite the opposite, but in my ears it doesn’t leave to sound harsh.

Thank you again for your experience and suggestions.

Greetings from Buenos Aires, Argentina.

José.

#16

Hello everyone, it’s good to meet again.

I want to tell you that after several tests and listening; I have decided to leave the Rs250 A, as it comes from the factory.

The output volume is controlled by the Rs250 and I have it set to 90, because otherwise I would have to raise the volume of the PrimaLuna Evo 300 too much.

DAC filters.

Regarding this point, I am using the Minimum Phase Fast Roll-Off Filter.

The sound set of PrimaLuna Evo 300 and Rs250A, with its factory settings, is very good; In these questions you have to try, until you find what you are looking for
Anyway, I’m going for the UPDATE, to the RS150B.

Greetings from Buenos Aires, Argentina.

José