To understand why it’s not just about bits & bytes, read Bits, Bytes, and a Revelation - Melco S100/2 - Soundnews
Analog communication plays a key role regarding Audio Streaming.
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The simplified version is: there is no ‘digital’, just thresholds.
The more complicated version: our whole universe is quantized. There is no ‘analog’. But then we’re talking Planck quantities in the order of 10^-30.
Fact is, even the most intelligent physicists don’t even know what electricity, or light really is. Or the framework of reality (ie darkness).
What we think is a 1 or a 0 is in fact a whole lot of electrons that are arriving in larger or lesser numbers. And numbers that are inbetween. So a digital signal is in fact made up of a digital signal with a many times finer grid that looks like analog if you don’t look to close.
Anyone still here? 
I think Hans Beekhuizen already explained it a little bit.
And to top it all off, our sight and hearing, in fact all our senses are digital as well. Because our nervous system is electrical in origin. Sensors (hairs in the cochlea, cones and rods in our eyes) fire off an electron when exited, which fired off a cascade in the nerve that reaches our brain. And there sounds can trigger our emotions.
And you thought electronics were ingenious.
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The kind of people whose education is in gender studies, basket weaving, or OnlyFans marketing, will read an advertisement written by a vendor and do a “shut up and take my money” dance. Anyone with IQ above freezing will just see the name “Melco” and throw that add in rubbish, where it belongs with other nordosts, audioquests and other bybees.
PS Hans can’t explain anything because he is one of those basket weaving majors who will say anything for a few bucks.
Hear hear.
But I must disagree on Hans Beekhuizen. He is even older than me which means he got a proper old school education in sciences. And he does explain it well. That’s why it’s boring I guess. Only, because he’s an old school reviewer he is focused mainly on western manufactured gear.
And what goes for ‘digital’ also goes for cables. There are things we previously didn’t bother to take in to account and things that aren’t measurable, but that doesn’t mean there are metallurgical and topological differences that can make a difference in sound. Although I don’t think some prices are justifiable (cables are often the most profitable auxiliaries for sellers).
Our understanding and knowledge keeps increasing so that should tell you right there that what we think we know now is not written in stone. Science is always in flux. And some things are kept secret because it’s not opportune or profitable. As the real Tesla found out.
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Hans is the kind of person who will make sure everyone sees that he’s an AES member, but will conveniently neglect to mention that anyone can be an AES member as long as they pay membership dues. And his member page (which AES at least somewhat checks) states cleanly that his only involvement with anything “scientific” is writing whatever sponsors want him to write for many years.
Even if there were any audible effects of those metallurgy and topology differences (none has ever been demonstrated) they would be perfectly measurable. And if there were a conspiracy to keep those technologies secret (because indeed, such cables would be of great use to three letter agencies) none of these magic cables would be available for sale, and every fraudioquest engineer would have suffered some “unfortunate accident.”
Throwing the money on an audiophile ethernet cable however requires zero intellectual effort, and for some people it is far preferable to treating the room, picking right speakers, or doing something else that would be an actual improvement.
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That’s all fine. But what I really meant to say he has a video that just explains what can impact a digital signal. So far the best explanation I saw. In all honesty, I find his reviews rather boring. Very much like once the written reviews. Also I always factored in the commercial interest. Although, as you might know, we Dutch people are less driven by money and usually speak the truth. Whether it suits you or not. Germans are the same, just say it like it is.
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“Commercial interest” is really the operating word there. None of those reviewers would bite the hand that feeds them.
I disagree. Some people actually understand the idea of integrity and value the longer term implication of being honest. Dishonesty might pay off on the short term but hurt you in the long run. If I read or watch someone who is disingenuous I switch off.
I have a few channels that I unsubbed from. Like cheap Audio man, old hifi guy, Erin, the scientific audiophile and the Audiophiliac (or was it the loud shirts and the messy room?). Some really get under my skin.
I had the same thing with my dealer and advisor in my local b&m audio store. I could trust his advice as a friend and I could walk out with a cd player without paying. “Just come and pay if you like it, and if not just bring it back”.
If ever there was an argument on if something should work or not, the solution was very simple. Just sit down and listen. Or make an appointment a bit later so he could closely mimic my system. You can keep typing replies on a forum till your fingers are blue, but you’ll never get to the same type of understanding. It’s the best way to learn: just try it out. Preferably together with others.
That’s why I didn’t buy the first Technics Sigma Delta cd player (MASH it was called). That’s why I bought a tube amplifier instead of upgrading my Linn Axis to an LP12 turntable. My Mission Cyrus II wasn’t bad, but man; what a difference.
Today it’s much easier to try for yourself since products from China are so much cheaper. Up to 10x cheaper. And if it doesn’t improve on your current cable at least you didn’t spend $500 and you still have a very solid product.
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Some do, but most, definitely including Hans, Darko, Erin for that matter, are in it to make a living. Amir might be an exception, having enough money and other sources of income, but these guys aren’t there to bring us THE TRUTH (whatever it might be) about audio reproduction. They have their sponsorships, and their sources of free shiny toys to write glowing reviews of, which would dry up if they wrote anything critical. Can’t expect Darko to say that cables make no difference when he is sponsored by Audioquest.
You definitely do want to audition speakers. Ideally in your own room, although the showroom would do if they won’t let you take them home to try. Something like a tube amp definitely needs auditioning. We all know that it distorts more and you have to decide if you like it and which distortion you prefer. Something you can’t tell from the measurements. Some things you want to at least poke at to evaluate the ergonomics, build quality, how it looks up close. And then there are things that aren’t worth evaluating at all. A power cable, even if it is the diameter of elephant’s leg, won’t make any difference after literally miles and miles of old aluminum wiring swinging in the wind on transmission lines, and before some 16 gauge wire inside the device. Absolutely buy it if you like the looks of it (in any case even that $500, or $5000 cord would have the same $10 Chinese wire inside the fancy jacket anyway).
The rest is more of a philosophical question. Can William Thomas believe that he’s a girl named Lia? Sure. Do we have to indulge him in also believing it? Hell no. Same goes for Melco switches making a difference. They certainly do make a difference for Melco’s bank accounts. Can one believe that they hear a difference? Of course. A glass of cool Sancerre on a warm day works even better, but a switch lasts longer. Does that difference exist objectively? Nope. As the late Daniel Moynihanis alleged to have said, “Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.”
People really don’t know the difference between facts and opinions anymore. There has not been a worse collective deception than “trust the science”.
I’m totally done with ASR fanatics since they are staunchly unwilling to read (assuming they still can, which is becoming more and more dubious).
Reason will not convince when starting from improper assumptions. So I’m done here.
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Please see my post about how EMI affects digital signals. All digital signals are part of an analog system and can be affected and degraded by EMI.
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Which post - give me a cyberlink and I’ll go see your post on EMI (I always want to learn)
Even worse, people do not even want to know the difference between honest (if possibly misguided) opinions and advertising.
The difference between AR and some worthless prostitute like Hans or Darko is that ASR at least provides hard facts that one can use to evaluate equipment, even if one won’t necessarily follow “official” (such as they are) ASR recommendations.
Notice how the advertisement in the original post has no facts at all in it.
That, of course, ignores the rather obvious fact that either the digital data is or is not decoded correctly. If it isn’t that would be very and obviously audible.
EMU can affect the analog output. That, demonstrably, does not happen in well-designed equipment. But such nuances float right over dumbcycle’s head.
Mr Jeep, you do not know what you are talking about. Electrical signals are not digital in all cases. The human body does not work digitally at all either.
My doctorates in Theoretical Physics, and Analytical Mathematics find foolishness in your suppositions.
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You just discredited yourself here.
Advertising is just a form of publication where the agenda is onvious. It’s on a totally different plane than ideas or facts. As is an opinion, which is a perception of reality, personal. Facts are not. And advertisements are not even personal.
I find calling persons ‘prostitutes’ tasteless and not done. You can’t have a serious discussions with ad hominems. Generally it’s a admission of defeat, running out of arguments. It’s childish and toxic.
The problem with ASR is that it presents facts, but with a very limited scope, without knowing how to interpret these facts for their value. Which is not worth much. Their presupposition is that everything outside their scope must be excluded from forming a judgement. This is myopia exalted to religious status. Everything outside their POV cannot be true and must be excluded from scrutiny. Especially subjective observations because they will not comply to the ‘scientific’ framework. Or the prescribed political ‘consensus’. “Hard facts” are totally meaningless without the proper correlation to human experience or emotion which is the whole point of music reproduction. Thereby totally missing the point.
Don’t you find it interesting that not even one person on ASR review has a high end system ? It’s usually just cobbled together from left other clearance parts. The most notable thing is nobody from ASR ever took up Ted Denneys challenge to come to his factory with any of their measuring equipment and prove their snake oil claims. He even offered to pay for their lodging. Surprise, surprise, not even one troll showed up.
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Don’t waste your time with Boris , if he starts to insult you, just block him, he’s a known troll. I can’t read anything he posts and at least 5 of us regular posters (that i know of, probably much more) have blocked him already.
I am reposting here my points on this argument from another thread;
"For those of us who always hear the “it’s 0 and 1 binary transmission so it’s all the same”
There are 2 points:
First, EMI (Electromagnetic Interference) can significantly affect digital signals causing disruptions like increased error rates, data corruption, and even complete loss of data transmission due to the noise it introduces into the signal path; essentially degrading the quality and reliability of digital information transfer.
Second, many digital circuit components(transistors and capacitors) are inherently analog and their function can be affected by EMI and other interference leading to issues described above , leading to degradation of audio signal.
So the whole my $100 streamer is same as a RS130 is just scientifically and factually false and ignorant. Same with arguments discounting quality cables. This is why the RD160 fiber optic produces clear sound improvement, because of fiber optics ability to physically block interference
It’s like 2 machines running the same coding , but one has top tier new circuitry , and one is running old and worn down stuff, even though the same code is being used, there obviously be differences in performance, delivery, and quality."
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I’m sorry you think that. You should have studied biology instead of physics or mathematics to have an informed opinion. Or quantum physics. A quantum means as much as a unit. Therefore the whole universe is quantized on a very minute level, as defined by Planck.
Therefore I know you don’t know what I know what I’m talking about, and I read from your reply that you don’t but simply assume authority without bringing any argument to the table.
The flagelli in the cochlea as well as the rods and cones in the retina act totally digital. The chemical sensor fires or it doesn’t. And then it takes chemicals to restore before it can fire again. Just like hemoglobin picks up oxygen molecules in oxygen rich environment and discards it on oxygen poor environment. It’s a pure mechanical flip-flop on a nano-level. Our bodies proteïnes and enzymes are very intricate nano-robots where electrostatic and van der Waals forces decide the connection spots. Our nervous system is electrical based on chemical processes, just like a battery is.
The problem today with education is that smart people are taught all about a very minute aspect of science and by that they feel inclined to give ‘expert’ opinions on things they know hardly anything about, outside their expertise. Concrete: what does a mathematician know about healing plants, the use of color in art or the origin of morals?
So please, tell us something useful and on topic within your field of science that can help us explore the matter of this topic. Instead of clumsily trying to debunk someone outside of it.
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Well said.
Like I tried to explain earlier; a digital signal is not ones and zeroes in real life. That’s just and abstraction. In reality it’s a complex waveform that tries to emulate as well as possible a block wave, which is mathematically impossible because this requires infinite frequency. And infinity is a theoretical idea that is not found in the physical universe. As Einstein said: there are only 2 things that are infinite; the universe and human stupidity. And I’m not sure about the former.
It’s all about thresholds, rise time and clock accuracy. And a redundancy or parity can help on a data level but eventually the raw music data has to be extracted to feed to the dac.
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