Tidal Connect Support?

Function TIDAL / QOBUZ / SPOTIFY
#62

Michael,

I have been a vocal critic of the Rose software (the hardware is superb) and there are things I too would change. The learning curve without a manual is vertical and takes months of work for the dedicated. It’s by no means perfect but then neither is any other product or its software. If you don’t believe me just look at their user forums. Every streamer user forum I’ve been on is full of issues and complaints. If I looked at the user forums before buying, I’m not sure I’d ever buy another product.

If you don’t like walled gardens then you don’t like Apple which like Rose is largely a GUI walled garden on Unix.
The end result is what counts not how they get there. I too bought the Rose products - three 250, 150B and now RS 130 and had lots of difficulties. Hang in there. Rose products are not for everybody. They are for the very few who really are into music, technology and the versatility offered by Rose.

MQA has tanked and Rose had incorporated it. They are probably feeling a little burned. Wait and see if Rose comes around. With sophisticated choice and capability comes complexity, just like frequent updates in software cause pain. In my former working life I was the office managing partner of a medium size law firm. I cringed along with the office manager and IT people every time we were going to have a software upgrade. Every successful upgrade results in backward productivity, chaos, angst then gradual improvement. I see that same thing every time there is a software upgrade. If you want no issues, you have to buy a radio or other commercial product with less flexibility. Then it will work very well without issues.

Personally, I prefer Quobuz to Tidal but chacun à son goût.

You are right, nobody else that I’m aware of has a full fledged 4k graphics card built in and it’s a good one.

Rose is improving. Hang in there.

StandardModel

1 Like
#63

Thanks for that insight @StandardModel … my view on walled gardens is wrongly stated - I should have stated “aggregator apps” which must always make compromises … no one can be the aggregator, the experience always suffers (Even with the choice to build playlists across multiple sources)

As you said, the technology is incredible (the 150B is a beautiful, well engineered piece of kit - and no one has that video card). I went to this because of the tech, versatility and quality of the DAC. They are cutting edge - which is why when I started to unpack this I was so surprised.

@BorisM … you opening statement, you may want to consider how opening that way would be perceived in a forum that is all about collaboration and debate.

As for the technology … my view (which others might disagree with):

  1. Airplay is a flawed technology as it is limited to CD quality - so the value of MQA or lossless is … lost if airplay over to the unit (which the 150B can act as a bluetooth or airplay end point) Of interest, Apple TV also feeds across HDMI from apps also (Tidal, Apple Music) … in essence downgrading.

What is handy about Tidal connect is that if this was set up I could select multiple units … and they would be streamed natively (I am giving a command to the app on the Rose versus “streaming” the signal over airplay and losing everything I paid for)

  1. While I see some value in the Rose app (it is fine for grabbing a pre-built list), I find the Tidal app richer for browsing … and they will never keep up with that (To my above point … aggregator apps like SmartThings are always a compromise)

So … they should add it, it is surprising they have not when so many have (Sonos, Bluesound etc etc).

Thanks @StandardModel … I have it hooked up and in the rack … and will make a bet that they will do this as they should, and seem to be an innovator.

BTW … this whole thing might be moot considering what Apple is doing.

While playing with this system I started rooting around Spatial Audio … and comparing Prince Cream coming from Apple TV+ over HDMI into my McI and the same song from Rose using Tidal.

To my ears? The engineering that Apple has done on that song (and others … as I started to go down the list) is simply incredible in an ATMOS setup. It sounds like prince is thumbing his guitar in your left ear.

I had not played around with their ATMOS re-engineering, and certainly not all songs were that stark, but that one?

And no, ATMOS does not come through the same playlist on the Rose.

#64

Michael,

Thanks for your thoughtful and insightful comments.
Your observation about “aggregator apps” is spot on.
I’ve lived with SmartThings since its beginning and you are right about aggregator apps being a compromise. My problem is that aggregator apps always come long before the integrators get it right. How long has it taken Apple to get Apple TV to where it is now? A decade? Aggregator apps are by definition part of the cause of the bleeding edge. At some point everything we’re struggling with will become cheap, commonplace and invisible.

StandardModel

#65

True, but when most discussion is about sound effects of fuses and different brands of optical fibre, or long-winded diatribes that Rose is using a wrong version of Android, it’s also sadly true… Or, just above, the suggestion that there could possibly be some sound differences between Connect and using the native app in Rose (which Connect uses anyway).

As for your points, I am not sure where (1) comes from. Whether you use Rose Connect, or the TIdal (or Qobuz etc.) app on Rose’s screen directly, you are streaming in native resolution, just as natively as anything else.

(2) is a valid point. I just use Roon for all searching and library management, so it’s not much of an issue for me personally, but I probably would also be annoyed if I only had built-in search capabilities for either streaming or local music.

I haven’t dug too deeply into Tidal’s docs, but from a quick glance, they do not have a publicly available API sufficient for creating a useable player at all. There’s an API that does not support playback at all. There are reverse-engineered libraries (that Tidal isn’t very happy about) that support playback, but otherwise you need to get a custom SDK from them. I would imagine that getting it is much easier for someone like Lennbrook or Sonos who moves order of magnitude more devices than Rose does. From what ROSEHAN says, Tidal at least promises to make one, so getting it is not outside of realm of possibility. But it’s not as easy as just grabbing an off the shelf API, like they can do with non hi-rez Apple Music and running with it…

#66

Fair enough @BorisM … to your point, I have not dug into their SDK either - in which case, my hypothesis is just a hypothesis that hopefully … they prove wrong.

As for your commentary on cords, optical, and such, funny, fair and true enough (smile).

#67

It is a good point @StandardModel … on the bleeding edge element to aggregator apps.

And let’s both hope you are wrong on cheap, commonplace and invisible … where is the fun, mystery or wonder at great engineering in that?

#68

i guess i don’t know what i don’t know when it comes to the any potential audio quality difference between tidal via rose app and tidal connect. i would think they’d be the same. for me, the main issue on wanting tidal connect is that, if i understand correctly, i would be using tidal’s app instead of the reduced-functionality version of the tidal app that comes through the rose app. the tidal app is much more user friendly, particularly when it comes to navigating in your saved albums. the rose app version of tidal is pretty weak - sort by date added or a-z. tidal adds release date and artist organization. this helps me change things up. it’s small but important.

but more than that, as i understand it, if tidal connect was available, changes to the tidal app would be immediately available, instead of waiting for months for tidal to release the updated sdk. so to me, it seems like rose should do tidal connect once and then let tidal drive the car, rather than constantly having to update the rose version, always a month or two behind, always seeing people complain.

all that said, still love my 150b and the new update works fine for me, luckily none of the tortured problems that some have detailed on this site.

#69

There you go :slight_smile:

Tidal has a developer portal now, but they acknowledge that it’s not full featured and is just a start. There is nothing there allowing either Connect or regular playback functionality. By some online notes from people who implemented it (or decided against implementing it), to do Connect you need to be approved by Tidal, have Tidal provide you with a specific SDK for your system, use a paid third-party encryption service, and it generally does not look straightforward.

Since Rose says that they are working on it, I would expect it to happen eventually but honestly, I would not use it (if I were using Tidal in the first place) for security reasons anyway. Although I do see why one wouuld want it if they do not have Roon.

Yes, discounting a theoretical possibility that Tidal sends a higher quality stream when you use Connect (quite unlikely) sound would be identical.

It is a valid point that Tidal’s app provides better search/management experience than what Rose could integrate into a custom app based on Tidal’s APIs available at the time (although new ones seem to be more featured), but integrating Tidal Connect is not straightforward, unlike Spotify’s version (which Rose does have). For what it’s worth, Aurender, even for their new flagship which costs, mind you, about 10x the price of a Rose device, decided against implementing Tidal Connect because it’s too much pain.

#70

Michael,

“Where’s the fun, mystery or wonder in that…”?
There isn’t any. That’s why us techno-masochists will have moved on to the next (partly) shiny new thing to be frustrated with because it isn’t perfect.

I am 100% guilty of this syndrome of becoming easily bored, always searching for the next new thing. Another down side of this syndrome is that you pay 5x for something that isn’t even finalized yet.
On the good side we get to discover wonderful things before others. Streaming video/music over the internet is a field rapidly coming in to its own. The devices to do this right are just now becoming available. It’s really fun to be there at the creation.

StandardModel

#71

@BorisM here is the use case that I use it for … I will go into Tidal and click tracks (in my library) which is all of the tracks I have liked. Then hit random … and all of those tracks will go into a playlist. A big random list of random listening. Where it is limited as they cannot download 2K tracks. Ultimately … that is how I listen 90% of the time … while listening to new lists to “add more” as I go.

#72

For sure @StandardModel … for sure. A lifetime of buying things before buying them as that is the “fun”. Well said on techno-masochists … MKVs … early ripping to create playlists on CDs … for sure (to the chagrin of those in our households who say “Why is this different? It was finally working”)

#73

Michael,

Is there a techno- addicts anonymous chapter I can join?
In my household I serve the master who is a Latin and Greek classics scholar (retired professor) and who does not appreciate anything with “wires”.

I feel your pain.

StandardModel

#74

I can see utility in that; I do a similar thing with Roon from a local library and Qobuz. Alas, Tidal does not make it as easy as you’d think it should be…

#75

@ROSEHAN @roseloa any updates? Been using my HiFiRose 150B for a couple months now and frankly … it is a clunky trying to use your app (which does not effectively bring over my lists) versus when I just want to use Tidal.

Any updates on Tidal Connect?

3 Likes
#76

I would buy the 130 streamer if Tidal connect was supported.

2 Likes
#77

sooo much !
e.g. changing the same stream with several devices, nice algorithms, better UI, playlists/favourites kept (system sync just doesn’t work propperly) to name a few.
BR

#78

@ROSEHAN so what is the status on Tidal Connect? I see lots of updates to the software but NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE - TIDAL CONNECT. Any news here? @ROSELOA

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#79

This update will here never happen.
The same goes for Airplay II.
Believe me, I found out… :slight_smile:

#81

@ROSEHAN @ROSELOA Please could you provide an update on the status of Tidal Connect. And if you don’t have an update or if Tidal Connect is not prioritised for you right now, please let us know that. Would be very helpful for a lot of your existing and potential customers.

Thank you in advance!

5 Likes
#82

when will tidal connection finally be available??? All other much cheaper devices have it. What about you? your devices are among the most expensive streamers on the market and lack a basic function. Your tidal app is hopeless, we want tidal connect. when when when?

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