Too little bass , sold my Hifi Rose unit

ROSE Products RS201
#1

I had the HIFI Rose RS201E.
And I agree the display is gorgeous.
But the sound, was so tiny in the bass.
Although I did set the equalizer, it was still very thin.
I tried KLIPSCH, Dali, Polk.
All the same so little bass and deep sound, no punch.
I used a subwoofer only because I had to, really had to.

I sold the unit for a good price.
And went back to Yamaha RN600A, and the music shines again !
And no need for a subwoofer bass and dynamic more as enough.
Maybe I am just used to that old fashion warm sound.
And on low volumes full enough, no need to turn volume up.

I thank Rose for the support I got on the forum.
But I am so happy to hear music good again now !

1 Like
#2

Too bad! My bass is amazing with passive ROWEN speakers. Maybe you should try one of those? https://rowen.ch/en/

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#3

Sold my 130 for the same reason. ( lack of bass and punch)My Aurender is MUCH better.

#4

Yes and if you try to change bass or dynamics in the equalizer it is getting a mess.
I have now Klipsch R800F and Yamaha RN600A , and it sounds just great without, also on pure sound.
All those Class D amps maybe have no distortion at all.

But then you never heard a class A/B amplifier.
So warm and Deep bass and dynamics.

Just the old fashion way, if you turn up volume or low , it is just great.

I cannot imagine that people say I have to much bass.
Then you never , never heard this amplifiers and speakers form the 80-90’s, that was bass and dynamics.

Now I come home from my work, lean in a chair and think, aaaahhhhh, I just relax with eighties and nineties music again.

Good luck with your search for something else !

#5

I have no problem with the bass, and that’s only with a pair of Harbeth bookshelfs but then I’m using 250wpc

IMG_2499|375x500

Can’t imagine only 50wpc of class D with them but then I’ve read up it’s not good !

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#6

The RS201 is a tiny all-in-one. What do you expect? That’s like renting a hotel room and complain about the missing couch or the anonymous paintings.

If you want the best sound you need to do a little more digging or get advice from a good audio store. If you want my-fi you need to pick your own components. Or build your own.

Generalising about “class x” amplifiers is also a bad idea. There are so many factors at play. Especially when engineers are required to save cost. That means in the 50-ies there were plenty of cheap crap tube (class AB or B) amplifiers. In the 70-ies there were many horrible transistor (class B) amplifiers. That led to class AB transistor amps in the 80-ies and 90-ies to be the norm. Because they were ‘economic’. That means: not as power hungry as ‘old-fashioned’ class A tube amplifiers or rare class A transistor amps. Low or high volume, they always use the same maximum amount of power. About 8 times the rated power (25 stereo draws 200W from the socket).

Not to mention the smart idea of ‘feedback’ to improve the class B (or AB) amps. That gives you ‘better bass’. But it kills the music.

Then came class D (or T or whatever). Very efficient at about 95%. And they sound very good (depending on the execution), much closer to class A only with higher damping factor. You can compare that to what DSD in digital. It’s easy to produce chips that give very good results for little money. And soon cheap class D amps started flooding the market.

The same for power supplies. Switching power supplies are light, effective and small. And a lot cheaper than the bulky linear power supplies with big transformers. Only when not properly engineered they give off a lot of high frequency noise. That doesn’t mean they are all bad. They are now even being used in the best audiophile amplifiers.

So it’s all in the execution.

Now back to the 80-ies.
-All music from that time had little bass. No deep bass (no speaker could reproduce it and it makes LPs skip and reduce playing time). And amplifiers all had lower damping factors so they produced sloppy bass. Bass that goes on longer sounds thicker. But it is muddying up the midband. That made them sound ‘full’. The 70-ies ‘brown sound’. (You know what else is brown? :wink: )

-Modern class D amps have much higher damping factors, better controlled bass. Tight bass is correct, start and stop in milliseconds.

When you combine the two: guess what happens? Too little bass.

I just experienced it myself with an older (1986, Jennifer Warnes) lp that just came out as an expensive 1-step remaster. I hadn’t played it in decades, but I remember it as really good sounding. One of the best recordings. So I looked up my original LP. And guess what? It sounded awful. Sibilant, thin and no bass. The same for ‘The Cure’ from the same era. I remember it as full sounding, but it sounded thin.
And that is with a 150W class AB (Gato Amp150 SC) on Genesis VI speakers (early 90-ies).

So what’s the fix? I turn up the subwoofer level on the Genesis amp. And when I go back to modern music or a movie I turn it back down. Subwoofers are always better for serious listeners. It has to do with different positioning demands for the speakers and the room’s bass response.

It’s all in the mastering of the music. Don’t blame the rs201 for doing what it is meant to do.

3 Likes
#7

Jeep :+1: :muscle: :clap: :clap: :clap:

#11

That is your opinion.
And al those so named audiophiles, are nuts complete nuts !
You must listen in “pure” mode.
Not even tough bass or treble, and loudness was out of the game at all.

Now I wish them good luck, and very good ears.
In my ears it sounds much much better if you play around with it, and listen to it with your own ears.

And again since I have this components, I don’t need a subwoofer , also not with 80 and 90 ies music.
In my opinion the only good music ever was made in pop music.
But that is my opinion.

I don’t need those new music where every tone has to be as loud as the other instruments.
And where clipping almost reaches the point.
All f.ucked up music haha.

And what to expect form a component that only costs about almost 2000 euro.

Good sound,at least !

It is nice to have a brilliant display, but not good sound.
My configuration costs now, about 1200 euro.
And it all works , tone adjustment, and fast also, streaming, server, etcetra.
Hell I even use my Technics record player again with pleasure !
Deep warm sound and tonally sound ,on high and low volumes.

So no it is not worth the money only for a gorgeous display.

And everbody can leave tecnical things about it, I now I was a Professional DJ in those years.

So I now how music must sound like.

For me no going back.

I was just chocked that for less money I listen again to music with pleasure.

I took almost ten people to listen to the difference, because I thought I was getting nuts.
They al set omg what a bad sound.
No body at all.No coloring.Only If I turned on a sub, yes they say almost satisfying.
Then I turned on the new Yamaha with the same speakers and without a sub.
They were really choked by the difference just like me !

It just sounds like it is music again now.

Even a Denon Ceol N12 sounds warmer !

We do not all want to put 10.000 euro for “better” sound.

So it is not me, it is the unit.
And no the unit is not broken.

Maybe for classical it fits ?
But that is it.
And if your amplifier has to use a sub to get bass from the 80 ies.
Just dump it, and get a good old fashion one.

#12

Eh brother you’re quoting the wrong J… after the fourth attempt I do agree though the only good music is pop music. Be it thrash metal; psychobilly, progressive rock, gothic rock punk rock and ultimately just good old fashioned rock and roll. Do you like Marillion?

#13

Yes I like that.
But also Modern Talking,Propaganda, Bee Gees, Toto etcetera,

I am sorry I quoted it to you, excuses.
But I am done with all this so called audiophiles people, if you now what I mean.
If you have good stuff , it just sounds good :slight_smile:

#14

:popcorn:
priceless stuff!

2 Likes
#15

If you’re so happy now, why do you feel the need to dump your s#it in this forum? Faalhaas.

If you want to feel victimized, go somewhere else.

I made a custom setup for a friend that sounds good for €100. Turntable, phono-amp, 100w class D with BT5, solid 20mm bamboo speakers, old paper Philips fullrange with a Be/Cu dome tweeter. It’s all she could afford. So I made the speakers from scratch that I could live with in my system (in fact I just had them in my system and I didn’t really notice after a while). Just… With subwoofers.

I’m offering you my expertise of 40 years experience and all I get is s#it. Well thank you very much! Well at least it’s not wasted on others.

I know what it’s like to start a business from the goodness of your hart and get s#it on by entitled little men.

#16

I’d be no audiophile either much beyond just good musicianship captured well in the studio; engineered well can’t deal with crud recordings anymore a good production is not to be sneered at it’s probably more than half the battle. Not unlike how I shop a trusted brand of speaker honed over time coupled with some latest tech, and Hifi Rose even with it’s display alone made it that much more fun and involving I still don’t see anyone else doing anything like it…… so some wannabe “authority on sound” says you can’t pair these speakers with this amplifer yet it sounds good to me?!

Some purists and snobs online can really obfuscate the matter. Right down to the wire, but you take your time without jumping the gun / pulling the trigger too soon and you’ll get to what you really did want in the end. They don’t even stock any of the components out on the island here not even the cable so had to look overseas!

#17

Yep. Like they say: “On the internet everyone’s an expert”. But that doesn’t mean everyone IS. I like to think everyone CAN BE an expert with all the information at hand. But you need to do an awful lot of sifting, comparing, checking and using your wits. Unfortunately many ‘experts’ are rather lacking in the latter.

I think we can agree that nobody likes snobs. But that word is all to often used as a slander. It’s so easy to call someone that simply because he has more money to spend and simply because of that has more experience. No, that doesn’t make him any smarter, although smarter people tend to have more money (or less scruples).
Also, being a purist isn’t bad in itself. I really don’t like impurities in my food, my wine or in my water. In Hifi I’m more of a minimalist, since that has proven itself to often work best. KISS is an engineering adagio (keep it simple, stupid!). But I am also a realist and a pragmatist, as well as a empiricist. I just don’t take anyone’s word for granted; I want to know if, and why. So if I can I want to try it for myself.

Maybe that’s why I have so many different speakers and amps, and DACs, and turntables. The best way to learn it to try it yourself. So hey, go ahead.

But since the forum is open to anyone (cough a$$hole cough) it is important to also give other information so at least there is something to sift. And not just leave readers with totally one-sided information. Free speech is not just a slogan.

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#18

I have many complaints about my RS130. Bass is NOT one. I’m guessing your DAC my be lacking.

#19

I have music experience for 35 years, that has nothing to do with it !
I had also several ones.
But everyones ear is different.
And I have had people who claimed I have the best and to my ears it sounds rubbish.
Price has nothing to do with it at the end.
Your own ears , that is what matters !

And , and that is only my opinion, it had a beautiful display, but it was not the purist thing for music for my ears.
That is all I say.
And then the price is just overkill for the outside.

I am going back to the basic.
A good amplifier for my ears, and in the price range I can afford.
I don’t mind if I don’t hear that one piece of hiat not so strong.
I have to feel the music, the rhythm, dynamics, the fun in music, the joy in music.

And for me this was not the one.
It was gorgeous to see, but also that things where not working complete, the joy was gone !

And ll I wanted to say , if I want bass much, if I want treble much , if I want mids much, I am not a good audio listener ?

Yeah sure I met those people.
Oh my god they say beautiful at pure mode…are you nuts I said to them ?
In my ears it sounded like a transistor radio.

I like pop music and electronic music.
It is that simple.

And it is not only about how it looks like.
It is how you hear the music !

#20

So enjoy your music.
Go to a shop take your music with you, and then choose the right one for you, in your budget.
And turn that knob if you want to, it are your ears , you have to listen to it !

Have fun.

I am leaving this forum.
Because I no longer have a HIFI Rose anymore.

#21

Prachtig verhaal. Maar had je dat niet beter gelijk kunnen doen? Eerst luisteren en dan kopen? In plaats van gelijk kopen en dan een beginnend bedrijf afzeiken omdat jij een domme eikel bent? Heb jij nooit fatsoen geleerd? Kijk eens in de winkelstraat waar alle mkb-ers de tent sluiten. En maar klagen dat je geen service krijgt.

Ik krijg soms last van plaatsvervangende schaamte dat ik een Nederlander ben. Door Hollanders zoals jij.

#22

Doe eens normaal man !
Ik scheld jou toch ook niet uit ?

Ik zeg alleen dat het merk niet voor mij is.
En nee ik kon het hier dichtbij niet beluisteren waar ik woon.
Dus ik moest af gaan op reviews.
En ik val juist het bedrijf niet af, als je op school beter Engels had gestudeerd , zag je dat ik bedankte voor de service die ik heb gekregen.

En praat mij niet over een bedrijf sluiten, ik heb zelf naar 16 jaar mijn bedrijf moeten sluiten.

Dus praat niet zo stroef over het paard getild mannetje !

En als Nederland je niet bevalt , dan ga je toch lekker ?

#23

Het is trouwens geen beginnend bedrijf.
Het maakt al displays sinds ik geloof 76 jaar geleden met succes.
En is nu dus ook in de audio markt.

Het is een open forum, en ik geef mijn mening, naar niet even er mee omgaan.
Maar alles op het apparaat te hebben getest.

En het wil niet altijd zeggen dat duurder beter klinkt in iemand zijn oren.
Geluid is subjectief , en een ieder luistert of hoort het anders.

Dus niet gelijk strooien met dingen en iemand uitmaken voor iets.