Is it worth it to add an RS130 & RD160 to an AVM 90

ROSE Products RS130
#1

RS130 & RD160 Owners: Currently my system has a really good sound with a large three dimensional soundstage (speakers are invisible).

I am hoping my speakers & overall system can be upgraded to achieve the next music Sound Quality level. I like an analog sound with a detail/3D depth large soundstage. My music genres vary from new age, jazz, progressive rock, etc.

Should I buy the RS130 & RD160? If so, any recommended switches (one or two) and any recommended cables/transceivers - alternatively, please detail your system inter-connections from Router to Power Amp.

My current system is:

Anthem AVM 90 prepro, Macintosh MC255 & Anthem MCA 525 power amps, Magnetar UDP900 4K Disc Player (universal, region/zone free), Dune HD 8K Media Player, Synology NAS, Finite Elemente PAGODE 1120MR HD12 Component Stand. Torus Power RM-40 BAL (12 outlets, linear toroidal power isolation unit, 40A instantaneous power). Universal Aurora Remote.

Totem Acoustics Speakers: Element Metal V2 (FL/FR), Element Wood V2 (center), Tribe III (SL/SR), four Tribe Architectural IW (in-wall heights) & two JL Audio f112v1 subwoofers – Cables: AudioQuest (AQ) Black Beauty Interconnects, AQ Rocket 88 FL,C,FR speaker cables.

Currently, I’m thinking of

Buying the RS130 & RD160 with the RD160’s RCA connected to my AVM 90’s prepro RCA ports – the AVM 90’s RCA specs are 20Hz to 80kHz, 32bit 786kHz signal (Intially, I plan to passthrough the RD160 signal, bypassing the AVM 90’s DAC, to the MacIntosh MC255 amp to my Totem Element speakers - I’ll trial ADC for crossover & Room Correction benefits)

#2

No, under no circumstances should you add this combo. I strongly recommend that you stick with the new RS151B.

At the very least, have some patience (you clearly have the money and the means) and take the time to test this streamer alongside the 130+160 combo. In the evening, sit down with some friends and ask them to switch between the two setups while you remain seated in your chair with your back to the equipment.

Its crucial to have dim lighting this way, your ears will be even more sensitive. And dont drink alcohol.

Draw your own conclusions.

Im just trying to save you six thousand euros.

No need to thank me.

#3

Thank you for your recommendation.

Help me understand the reasoning. The RS151b is a streamer & preamp - it has the same ES9039PRO DAC as my AVM 90. I don’t need a preamp especially one that has the same DAC as my hi-end AVM 90 prepro.

I understand RS151b hardware components & internal design are hi-def audio quality; hence a good streamer. But wouldn’t the RS130 be a better sound streamer for my system (being my AVM 90/MacIntosh MC255/Speakers are audiophile components).

I understand you not recommending the RD160 because the AVM 90 sound is quite good.

Please elaborate more as to why not RS130 - is it because the RS151b sound is as good as the RS130 and RD160 RCA sound will be of little gain for my current system.

I’m not defying your recommendation. I just want to better understand the reasoning.

BTW, I live in a rural area. Many retail stores refuse to provide me components for trial purposes; hence, I’m seeking advice from RS130, RD160 & AVM 90 Owners – I’ll definitely try to convince a retailer to sent me trial HiFi Rose components (being there’s a significant price risk).

#4

I’m not in with the AV 90 (as I don’t have one, I still use my RMC-1 from Emotiva).

If you want to take profit of the good quality of the Rose Combo - I’d suggest to replace the Macintosh with an Integrated Stereo Amp which supports Hometheater passthrough.
Then connect all Stereo Devices (like the Rose) directly to the Integrated Amp.
For testing purposes, if a dealer lend you devices for testing, they also can be used as Preamp.
Simply use your MC255 and compare direct or with the AV90 in the chain.
Then you know the way to go.
I know that the AV90 is very good (good DAC on board) but I always found dedicated Stereo devices better for music.

some of these AMPs will support HT passthrough.

McIntosh MA352
McIntosh MA5200
McIntosh MA5300
McIntosh MA6700
McIntosh MA7200
McIntosh MAC7200
McIntosh MA7900
McIntosh MA8900
McIntosh MA9000

I’m planning for a new AVprocessor, so intresting to hear about your experience.

#5

Thanks for your recommendation. The AVM 90 prepro is a hi-end prepro and I have no intention to give it up - to give you an idea as to its level, reviewers compare the AVM 90 against the Trinnov & Mackenzie AV10 (of course, Trinnov wins but not by a lot; as for AVM 90 & Mackenzie AV10, they are near tie).

Thanks again for your recommendation - I fully agree with your reasoning of seperates & audiophile specialized preamps may be better.

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#6

You may also consider the Grimm MU2. Perhaps even a step up in any way. Being a streamer, dac, Roon Server plus preamp. With a better clock than the RS130. All in one Box. So, no cost for excess cabling and a les crowded rack.
It all depends on what par you want your system to be as an Endgame System.

#7

My argumentation was based on what you already have.
Is the seperate way expensive? For sure
And beside the budget, you need to have the place for the additional devices, etc.

How much it will bring you forward soundwise, is related to the speakers you have in your setup.
For a dedicated home cinema, I would not suggest to go with that path.

the AVM 90 is also in my list, if Emotiva’s newest release will not be much better than the buggy current one.

#8

I’m waiting for the trade program in order to have a XMC-2 +

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#9

I don’t have the space for a dedicated stereo system.

As for the AVM 90, many audiophiles got rid of their Anthem STR stereo preamp after buying the Anthem AVM 90 - they said the AVM 90 is better than their STR for stereo music. One of these owners was Yonettes - he is 90% music 10% HT. I really respect Yonettes opinion/recommendations.

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#10

I’m in a complete other world that an Anthem.
But as I said, this is something the user must decide for themselve.

I would never change my Soulution Audio Integrated AMP, but I will still have the need of a HT processor.

#11

You can use a device like this to achieve Home Theater Bypass without the need of replacing your AVM.

#12

I have the AVM90 and the 130/160 combo. I’m a little confused about the way you are planning to connect them. I also have the RA180 rose amp and my 160 connects to it via XLR. Therefore, for stereo listening via the 130 I don’t even need to power on the AVM90. The 130 & 160 are connected via SFP+ optical connection. (It sounds marginally better than the same cable with copper DAC (Direct Attach copper)) and way better than i2S via a borrowed expensive HDMI.

For movies or multichannel music via Apple TV I use the home theater bypass. So L&R are powered by 180 and the rest via MCA525.

#13

For movies and multi channel music via Apple TV, do you think that it is possible somehow to insert RD160 and RA180 into the play for the front two channels? Since RD160 is a better DAC than AVM 90.

I would not think so as AVM90 does not have two channels digital output to connect to RD160.

Any ideas?

#14

I plan to connect as follows (give me feedback as to pros & cons):

Internet coax → Modem → Router, Router SFP → 1st Network Ethernet Switch’s SFP #1 (switch has 2 SFP Ports), switch’s SFP #2 → 2d Audiophile Network Ethernet Switch’s SFP #1 (switch has 2 SFP Ports), switch’s SFP #2 → RS130’s Ethernet SFP

Mobile HDDs → RSA720 RJ45 ports, RSA720 USB 3.0 → RS130 USB 3.0

RS130 USB SFP → RD160 DAC’s USB SFP, RD160 RCA → AVM 90’s RCA, AVM 90 Virtual Input 2.0 / 2.2, AVM 90’s XLRs → MacIntosh MC255 Zone A Power Amp → FL & FR Speakers

Note: The MacIntosh MC255 power amp has two zones (Zone A enables only FL & FR speakers; Zone B enables all 5 channels: FL, C, FR, SL, SR; note: a Zone is a power trigger input).

BTW, My four height speakers are connected to the Anthem MCA 525 power amp. I control the two power amps via AVM 90’s three power triggers and a Universal Aurora Remote.

BTW, My NAS has two aggregated Cat6a RJ45 ports to the Router’s two aggregated RJ45 inputs.

BTW, I have not yet selected the two network switches - I’ve not yet decided whether I’ll buy two or one network switch. AFAIK (read), two network switches improves the sound quality (I’ll try to get the 1st Network Switch on trial); the 2d Network Switch will most probably be Sotm or Melco 10/2.

Thus, 5.2 cinema is via AVM 90 & MacIntosh MC255 Zone B power amp and 5.2.4 is via AVM 90, MacIntosh MC255 Zone B & Anthem MCA 525 power amps.

Stereo is via RS130, RSA720, RD160 DAC, AVM 90 & MacIntosh MC255 Zone A.

What is your HT System & Stereo System connections? Do you use the same FL & FR for both HT & Audio Stereo like I do? I’m confused: How do you connect the same FL & FR speakers to both the AVM 90 and the RA180?

I do not have the space for separate FL / FR speakers.

Also, how does HT Bypass work between the RA180 & AVM 90 - AVM 90 does not support HT Bypass - please explain how this works.

#15

The RA180 can definitely be inserted into the flow between the Apple TV and AVM 90. I know because I’m doing it. There are 2 RCA’s connecting the AVM90 to the. “Line 3” input on the 180. There are XLR’s from RD160 to the 180 and when I switch the input to balanced I get the sound from the 130 via SFP.

The line 3 is specifically dedicated to home theater bypass via software and a physical switch. Therefore the 160 is not in the loop. You could connect the Apple TV to a separate input in the 160 but I imagine it would be pointless as even if it worked you would surely lose the video signal.

IMG_6158
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To get it to work you’d need an HDMI splitter to split out the audio. However…

I did test changing the audio settings in the Apple TV to output to the 130 over airplay 2. It works! 130 sends to 160 and then outputs normally. However the 160 receives pcm 48khz. Playing the same track from the Apple Music app on the 130 delivers pcm 96. Both can be upsampled as needed.

#16

FL and FR are only connected to RA180. RA180 has pre out coming from the AVM90 via RCA. So FL and FR are always powered by RA180 regardless of source. On the 180 I choose Line 3 or balance output

#17

So far, my understanding of your posts, you have the following configuration (right?):

I don’t understand the roll of the HDMI Splitter. And I still do not understand

  • how internet & NAS streaming is connected
  • do you connect network switches? if so, detail the connection flow
  • how the RS130 & RD160 are connected to the RA180
  • source device audio & video connections for 5.1 movies
  • the HT Bypass interactions

So far, I think your system configuration is:
Apple TV ?port? → RS130 ?port?
Source Devices for HT HDMI → AVM 90 HDMI
AVM 90 RCA → RA180 RCA, RA180 line 3 → FL & FR speakers
AVM 90 RCA/XLRs (C, SL, SR) → Anthem MCA 525 → C, SL & SR speakers

How is internet, RS130, RS160 & Other Source Devices connected within your system? Also can you elaborate what the RA180 does regarding HT Bypass (e.g., which port is HT Bypass set for and when HT Bypass is activated what are the RA180 to AVM 90 interactions?).

To help me better understand your system configuration, please provide a detail flow chain from Internet/Source Device → …sysrem components… → speakers

#18

Ok, let me try my best…,

HDMI Splitter - picture attached. I haven’t used, so you too can google.

IMG_6184
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Connecting NAS & network switches - I don’t use a NAS, my music is stored on a Mac running Roon. I have a WIFI 6 router with 5 satellites around the house. The Mac, 130 & AVM 90 are all hard wired to the satellites. If you can run a cable to a network switch it will be better. Using SFP+ optical is best. I’m not yet a believer that the network switch etc makes a significant impact on sound. I have used relatively expensive cables and power conditioners.

130 & 160 connections. 130 connects to 160 via SFP. 130 to AVM 90 VIA HDMI. 160 to 170 via balanced XLR.

All AV components go direct to the AVM 90. Including Apple TV, Cable TV, Internet TV box. All via HDMI. Apple TV is not connected to 130 so it uses AVM90 config.

RA180 connects to speakers directly. It outputs to the speakers depending on the input selected. Balanced sends output from the 160 via XLR to FL&FR for 130 stereo source. For 5.1 (eg Apple TV) with HT Bypass on 180, Line 3 sends FL&FR - source is RCA from AVM pre out. For remaining 3 channels, AVM90 connects to MCA525 via XLR. 2 subwoofers connected to AVM90 via RCA.

Make sense?

#19

I think your systen connection flow is: (please confirm)

RS130 USB SFP → RD160 DAC USB SFP, RD160 XLR → RA180 XLR, RA180 → FL, FR

RS130 HDMI → AVM 90 HDMI → …

  • HDMI Video portion → TV HDMI
  • HDMI Audio portion RCA preouts → RA180 RCA line 3, RA180 → FL, FR

AV Source Devices → AVM 90 HDMI → …

  • HDMI Video portion → TV HDMI
  • HDMI Audio portion → …
    • AVM 90 channel 1, 2 RCA preouts → RA180 RCA line 3, RA180 → FL, FR
    • AVM 90 channel 3, 4, 5 XLR preouts → MCA 525 XLRs, MCA 525 → C, SL, SR
    • AVM 90 LFE/Bass Audio RCA → Subwoofers’ RCA

Re above, HT Bypass is on RA180’s RCA line 3 input (HT Bypass tells RA180 that anything received on RCA Line 3 is to be passthrough to FL, FR speakers, right?

160 to 170 via balanced XLR.

I think “170” is a typo, it should be 180 (right?)

RS130 User Interface
Significant HDMI output issues with RS130 as a Roon endpoint
DRC, the missing link in the chain
#20

You are correct on all points (including the typo) :grinning:

For the 130->160->180 the “balanced” output is selected.

Because of the AVM90’s endless input configuration options you can pair video from any source to audio from any other source. I can listen to music from 130 but video could be a tv channel or an Apple TV app cycling through landscapes.

You can also use the AVM90 DAC via digital coax or optical from the 130 and include room correction and even subs giving you a digital 2.2 system. The possibilities are endless….

The 180 has a sub output but it doesn’t appear to work - last time I tried it was sending full range signal to the Sub….which is not ideal.

Hope I’ve helped answer your question!

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