[Official Release] ROSE ONE Global Launch

ROSE NOTICE Notice
#181

To: Cougar2025 & Smegel

Please consider posting specific function issues or support comments regarding your specific HiFi Rose device issues. For best community forum value, avoid negative generalization comments.

When comparing Eversolo verses HiFi Rose User Interfaces, disclose details like specific pros & cons. Take note, that Eversolo T10 & RS130 have different target markets ← their comparison is comparing apples & oranges.

Eversolo’s UIF apps are Native Apps (ie, they do not integrate the apps media with the users private library media). Being Eversolo runs native apps, each app has its own unique UIF which are third-party developed, tested & maintained.

IMHO, Eversolo’s primary customer are casual listeners desiring background music like music for parties, dining,… (most casual Iisterners like simple “click & play” interactions); hence, Eversolo T10 is great for casual listeners who desire good audio quality. (In essence, Eversolo T10 is like Nvidia Shield with better audio sound.)

HiFi Rose’s primary customer are audiophiles with large complex media library needs (IMHO, audiophiles are serious precise listeners who desire access to many varying focused media arrangements). Thus, the Rose One UIF needs to be much more sophisticated & needs to support many library variations (this, causes the UIF to be more complex which, in turn, causes the UIF to be more prone to intricate real life complexity issues that requires significant support efforts to resolve).

Take note, in HiFi Rose’s UIF, the Qobuz, Tidal,… apps’ media are integrated with the user’s private library media and the Qobuz, Tidal,… apps’ UIF are modified to also support the incorporation of similar UIF functionality, etc… (e.g., Classical Music functionality is added in the integrated apps)

I won’t go into futher details.

Please, in future posts discuss function specific issues or request new functionality pertaining to HiFi Rose’s targeted market base. (Announcing new competitor streamers has value only if details are provided that explicitly compares the new competition with HiFi Rose devices (also ideally, provide cyberlink to the competitor’s website and to video reviews); try to compare apples against apples.

Thank you in advance.

2 Likes
#182

Now you’re getting into the business decisions beyond the products.
I don’t disagree with what you are saying. In a perfect world you can get unlimited capital and you can find and hire the best. But we don’t live in a perfect world. So you have to make do with what you got and try your best.

Yet, we don’t have enough information to second guess Rose’s decisions.
We don’t know their sales numbers and constraints. Where I think they can improve w little cost would be in marketing.

ES floods the influencer market w products to review, then has an embargo date so that they all hit around the same time… then a second wave of smaller reviewers getting those units shipped to them.

For those who don’t think that these influencers have an impact on people’s buying decisions… they do.
I spoke to some friends who went to AXPONA this year and they said that Mon Acoustics (another Korean brand that makes good speakers) didn’t get a lot of foot traffic was due to a negative comment made by NRD (New Record Day) Yet if you look at many of the YT reviewers… they own their own personal set of the Platimons. (VC Ones) [ The Rose amps pair well with Mon Acoustic speakers.]
This is a lower cost marketing approach that could have a positive impact. But its a double edge sword.
NRD panned a speaker everyone else loved… and that still had an impact. However this is were a good distributor can help. MoFi is HiFi Rose USA and at shows you can find the RD160 in their rooms.

W.R.T the RS451 DAC…
Per ESS (See HERE: )
The ES9027 is still active and has the latest components. The ES9039 uses the same components just 4 instead of 2 and in a different package. Also the THR+N is -114db which is pretty good. There is a 2 channel Q2M series which is their lower power package meant for portable gear. IMHO Rose made a good choice here.

So its a good option when you want to hit a price point. Unless you’re a AKM fan.
( IMHO both the AKM and ESS chips that Rose uses sound good. )

I also think that Rose needs to improve Dealer/Distributor support.
HiFi Rose USA seems to do a good job. But from the posts here about support in Europe… I think there’s room for improvement.

#183

joyofmvid

I’ve written many times about what’s wrong with both the streamer and the app. I’ve been told that this is indeed a problem and they’re working on it. Recently, I received information that the tilt indicator, which currently serves as a gadget, will be improved in three months. I’ve also written about the app and its anomalies several times, and still no response.

Potential customers aren’t interested in the database a given app uses. They’re interested in the fact that it works well and quickly, and that they don’t have to buy a $1,000 smartphone or tablet to avoid the app stuttering or freezing, for example, when browsing favorite albums or browsing tracks on a specific album they’re listening to.

And there are more problems. Another one is how to choose in the search engine how to sort albums in the favorite albums folder TIDAL and how to choose the search method. Artist searches by first name, not by last name, which should be by last name. Many people simply don’t remember the artist’s first name. Another anomaly: when we search for a band in the main search engine, for example, and previously listened to Tidal, and after we finish listening to that album, we select something from Qoubuz, the Tidal icon still lights up green, but it should switch to Qoubuz. Next, adding and removing albums from favorite folders in Tidal and Qoubuz, and Rose also knows about this, it works, let’s say, only moderately, but so far, nothing has happened.
So, if there are problems, we should write about them, and if there’s reason to praise them, like the last update went smoothly for me, I’ll write about it. We’re here to write about our concerns and problems, although some of them should be caught by Producnet itself, not us users.

#184

@Querner
We plan to provide our feedback on your previous post by the end of this week.

1 Like
#185

joyofmvid

I am not as certain in my opinion as you about which consumer is an audiophile and which is a casual unsophisticated user. I am certain that there are audiophiles out there who consider neither Rose nor Eversolo to be brands that meet their standards. I am also certain that there are young audiophiles or aspiring audiophiles out there who dream of owning a T10 or an RS130 but who do not have the means. “Audiophile” is a subjective term. Some consider themselves audiophiles while some see it as a pejorative term. You, joyofmvid, are in no position to judge.

Regarding the T10 vs the RS130, neither has a DAC, neither produces sound. They are very similar digital front ends, digital transports if you will, with different features. The 130 supports video where the T10 does not. The T10 has room correction, the 130 does not. The RS130 is more handsome (IMO) and a lot heavier than the T10, and that is important to some. Both have similar inputs and outputs, both have internal clocks. But do the digits they output sound different if no room correction is applied and all downstream components are the same? I would argue not, but others will disagree. Oh, the T10 costs about 1/3 as much as the RS130.

Now what do I want from a digital front end? First, I want it to be stable and I want basic functionality to be rock solid. Yes, I like a pretty face, but it definitely does not trump basic functionality. Do I care if the software was built from the ground up or if it came from the streamer company or a third party? No, I just want it to work. Do I want to rely on a control app because the touchscreen controls do not work? No. Do I want I want internal storage for my library of ripped CDs and for my artwork to be displayed? Yes. That is de rigueur for a digital transport.

I have never seen nor touched a T10. I have no idea how it stacks up against the 130. But from what I have read and experienced, both are works in progress. My hope is that both nail down basic functionality, because in the end this is the component that the user interacts with to access digital content. No one wants to be frustrated accessing their music, regardless of what they paid for the unit.

I used to find your comments whimsical and amusing. Now I find them considerably less so. We don’t need someone telling us what is acceptable to post and what is not. If that is what you want to do, get a job at Rose or MoFi.

2 Likes
#186
#187

To: Cougar2025 & Smegel

Regarding my post at [Official Release] ROSE ONE Global Launch - #181 by joyofmvid

I edited my post so that it’s not so aggressive ← no insult intended (call it a bad hair day).

1 Like
#188

@Querner
When I joined the community, I replied using my orange.fr email address. Please refer to that.

#189

I had the T10 for 3 days at home, it should satisfy many people even if the RS130 is more stable during reading the sound is more pleasant, the rest are details (finishition etc …)

#190

@Rose_love
Why do I get this message from you? I never sent you an e-mail,

#191

Hey!
It takes a lot to get offended.
I still talk to Bonte. :stuck_out_tongue:

The thing is that I do know some audiophiles that would say Rose is audiophile grade, and some would say that ES is entry grade… but its the OS that gets everyone’s attention.

If you don’t do a side by side comparison or critical listening… the ES sounds good enough when paired with other ‘audiophile grade’ gear/speakers. But when you compare it to the next tier or a top tier component… you can hear the difference. Then you have to ask yourself is the difference worth 2x-4x the price?

The Rose RD160 is definitely audiograde. The amps are too, and I’m waiting to see the RA80s.

Personally, I wouldn’t get the T series. If you’re going to split out a the component level (separates for streamer and DAC) there are better choices. Aurender for example. I guess it all depends on what you want out of the system.

And while Bonte wants to point out the Room correction… not all room correction is equal and it has been pointed out that both the T8 and T10 allow you to import your own files from REW. And if you’re into room correction. Using REW and a good mic will yield better results than Dirac. (There are some rooms that you can’t correct w audio correction.) Jay Lee of Jay’s Iyagi pointed this out so unless you want the external clock … the T8 would save you $800 if you use REW.
[Note: The clock quality matters more to the DAC than the streamer. ]

#192

Smegel

You’re very lucky. I don’t know anyone who relies solely on streaming and files, and they’d say Rose is a manufacturer for audiophiles, let alone Ever Solo.
None of my friends have any equipment from these manufacturers. A few people have Rose, including myself, and this is my second time, and their systems are primarily based on SACD/CD or a turntable.
And in that case, it’s a good idea to buy, or at least try, something from Rose, because even if Ever Solo were 50% off, I wouldn’t buy anything from them.

1 Like
#193

Err… yes and no.

This is where it gets murky, let me explain…

First, what is meant by ‘audiophile grade’ exactly?
Some would say that there are levels to ‘audiophile grade’ and would consider ES and ROSE to be lower on the stack (depending on the component. The RD160 for example would be considered audiophile no doubt.)

And it will also depend what’s in the rest of the stack.

Here’s an example… there’s a hifi store a couple of miles from me. Well known for a good mix of new and pre-owned gear. They had a pair of ATC-50s (Active) getting fed by an ES DMP-A8. The sound was killer. Would I say that it was an audiophile system? Sure. But more due to the speakers. Could have been fed by a WiiM and it would still sound great. (On the same wall there was a bunch of Mac gear that they could have also used, but were in a stack with passive speakers. ) To be clear, it was the ATC speakers that brought the magic… but the DMP-A8 is ‘good enough’ to deliver. I’m sure the RS451 would also do a fine job too.

But to your point.
There are some that would tell you that no Class D amp is going to be good enough to considered audiophile. Yet we have Hypex, Purifi, AGD, Orchard Audio, and others that many consider to be Audiophile grade. I would say that Rose’s GaN amps hit that mark too.

Will they compete with something like a CH Precision or Solution Audio? No. Sorry. That’s a different league and well outside our wallets.

But the term ‘audiophile grade’ covers a lot of ground and I think on the low end Roes hits and can hold its own.

I agree that I personally wouldn’t buy Eversolo, but I’ve seen several audiophile put them in their stack and say they like the results. So who knows?

#194

audiophile grade…:rofl: :man_facepalming:t2:

Has nothing to do with you, Mikey. It’s purely about the fake term.

"Audiophile" and the voodoo madness: Why the term is often just money-made

Let’s talk about the hi-fi and high-end industry. The term “audiophile” sounds noble, but today it is far too often used as a psychological weapon to pull money out of people’s pockets. It’s the perfect marketing invention to create an artificial elite feeling: *“If you don’t hear that, you’re not a real connoisseur - so please buy our 10,000-euro devices.” *

Of course, there are physical facts: A good speaker needs housing volume, decent chassis, clean tuning and solid components. That costs money. But the industry has completely lost touch with reality because the market is shrinking and young people today listen to music with smartphones and in-ear headphones. So some manufacturers mercilessly milk the remaining, older customers.

The best proof of this is the so-called cable mafia:

  • The measured value fraud: To date, not a single manufacturer has been able to prove scientifically or by blind test that a power cable for 4,000 euros improves the sound. Curves of standard cables and sinfully expensive “Voodoo cables” applied to the oscilloscope are exactly one to one above each other.

  • The physical absurdity: What should the last meter of power cable in the socket physically improve if the electricity has previously flowed through cheap copper cables in the house wall and the street for kilometers? Nothing. It is pure autosuggestion and imagination (the so-called placebo effect).

The absurd is:

Today you can listen to absolutely fantastic music with a well thought-out, inexpensive system for a few hundred euros. In the end, the room (the room acoustics) decides 80 percent of the sound - not the golden power cable. Don’t let yourself be persuaded, you would have to spend 5,000 or 6,000 euros to enjoy music. “Audiophile” should mean the love of music and not the love of loss of control when looking at the bank account!

Three facts that underpin my arguments:

  1. The blind test phobia:

There are famous experiments in which high-end enthusiasts could not hear the difference between an expensive monster cable and a flattened wire hanger in blind tests. As soon as the eye no longer “hears” (because you can’t see the thick aluminum housing or the noble cable), the house of cards of the high-end mafia collapses.

  1. The shrinking market:

The classic stereo system is dying out. Soundbars, Bluetooth speakers and streaming have changed the market. In order to keep the profit margins stable, manufacturers must push the prices per device to astronomical heights and emotionally charge with terms such as “audiophile”.

  1. Psychoacoustics instead of physics:

The brain listens. Anyone who spends 5,000 euros on a cable wants and must hear a better sound in order not to look like an idiot in front of themselves. In psychology, this is called “purchasing regret avoidance”.

"Audiophile" is an invented word of the hi-fi & high-end mafia, which only wants our hard-earned money. Anyone who resists this is the true hi-fi fan.

Unfortunately, such posts are wrong in this forum!

1 Like
#195

Bonte, I agree for :100: procent.
Even my expensive Gryphon diablo was delivered with a standard power cable.
But what’s in some people’s head is hard to get out.
I do have an expensive system but most of the money is spent at a decent amplifier (Gryphon) and loudspeakers (Magico S1 MK2) but NOT to power cables or interlinks

1 Like
#196

Dude!
Why do you think I put it in quotes. :rofl: :joy: :rofl:

The point is that its a term that some like to use.
Clearly you don’t like the term and I don’t consider myself one although I do like listening to my music on a nice system.

And now you go off on a tangent.
You don’t really understand the term psycho-acoustics.
Its not just physics but how your brain interprets sounds.

And of course there are two types of people who would spend 5K Euros on a cable.

  1. Those who could easily afford it.
  2. Those who want to impress their friends.

I’d say you’re in the #2 category.

#197

Dude!

I only meant the word and it also says so in the post, “Dude”. Is your brain draining??? :sweat_smile:

Here has to come again a bit of action… :rofl:

#198

I’m sorry… did I miss gender you?

#199

Yes, because I saw through your scam to answer every post and impose your opinion on everyone.

So, switch off and go into real life, for example in nature. Or cycle about 20 miles around Chicago. What do you think, how nice you can sleep afterwards and after that the music sounds much better even without room correction.

#200

Prędkość bitowa

All amplifiers, power amplifiers, and CD players worth “millions” are shipped with a basic cable, and the same goes for RCA cables for CD players, regardless of the manufacturer.

But I don’t know anyone who sticks with such cables when they have devices of a certain level.

But not everyone has to buy more expensive cables. It’s a free world, everyone does what they want. And if someone can’t afford to put 30-40 liters of fuel per 100 kilometers, they buy a car with a 1.5-liter engine and it will also get them to point B and back to point A. The world is simple.